Bounce out of Burnout with Sheena Johnson

[00:00] Michelle: Meet Sheena Johnson, a remarkable Jamaican-born woman residing just outside London where she serves as an ICU nurse practitioner with the UK's National Health Service.

[00:13] Her journey took a profound turn during the peak of COVID when she faced the heartbreaking loss of her father while caring for some of the sickest patients.

[00:24] This loss plunged her into intense grief,

[00:27] prompting her to reflect deeply on her life.

[00:31] In a moment of stillness, she confronted difficult questions. What is happening to me? What are these emotions?

[00:40] Where is this overwhelming exhaustion coming from?

[00:44] Through her exploration of various podcasts and reading material, Sheena discovered the root of her struggles: burnout.

[00:53] Taking a typical nurse's approach, she looked around at her colleagues and noticed many shared similar feelings of anxiety, stress, demotivation and sleep deprivation.

[01:05] Realizing that she was not alone, Sheena decided to take action.

[01:10] She pursued training to become an accredited transformational coach for nurses and allied healthcare professionals. Dedicating herself to helping others overcome burnout,

[01:21] Sheena empowers them to create a lifestyle filled with balance, joy and vitality so they can show up authentically in both their personal and professional lives.

[01:34] If you're a nurse feeling overwhelmed, there's hope.

[01:39] Sheena is here to help you bounce out of burnout and reclaim your well being.

[01:45] In the five minute snippet. Is that squid giggling? 

[02:05] Well, hello, Sheena. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:09] Sheena: Hi, Michelle. Thank you so much for the invite and thank you for being on this platform and sharing my story with you. I'm really happy to be here.

[02:20] Michelle: I am so happy to be here with you. I get the privilege of seeing your amazing smile. I know our listeners can't see you because I don't record in video yet,

[02:32] but I just have the amazing privilege of seeing your smile and feeling your energy across the airwaves. So thank you so much for being here as well. So, Sheena, we're just gonna start by giving us an introduction.

[02:46] Who is Sheena Johnson? What is your story?

[02:50] Sheena: Wow. Oh.

[02:53] So right now I am prioritizing myself. I am finding this piece within myself, recovering from burnout. And it's been a journey. It's been an amazing journey so far, learning so much.

[03:06] But, you know, prior to that, I am a nurse practitioner, a mom, a wife.

[03:13] I have been certified to be a life and burnout specialist for nurses and healthcare professionals. Because a few years ago,

[03:24] I was at a place where I was burned out. And I didn't know what that was. You know, as a nurse that's been qualified for 20 years and really working in an acute hospital,

[03:37] caring for some of the sickest patients on a busy intensive care unit and leading teams during the peak of COVID which lots of things happen during that time that really makes us sit with ourselves and really ask questions.

[03:54] And it was during that time where I was also having some grief. I lost my dad during that time. And it led me to a place of stillness. It led me to a place where I had to sit with myself and ask, what is happening to me?

[04:11] What are these emotions, these feelings of overwhelm, this feeling of feeling exhausted at the same time, this feeling of not being sure within myself anymore. And as a person who's always a go-getter, a high achiever, always trying to do another course, another certificate, this was a very strange place to be in.

[04:33] And so I had to really stop because I couldn't go on. I was too exhausted. I had to slow down and check in with myself.

[04:41] And I've learned so much during this time that I wasn't alone on this. Even though I didn't want to say I was trying to hide these emotions, thinking, surely this is how nurses are meant to be behave.

[04:57] Surely nurses are meant to be tired and exhausted. It comes with the job. You get told this, right? And so I just wasn't believing that myth anymore. And I had to start working through these emotions.

[05:13] And I did a lot of podcasting, listened to a lot of podcasts, read a lot of book around. You know, what I was experiencing, the anxiety, the stress, the being demotivated, not having enough sleep.

[05:28] I just had a lot of reading, trying to improve myself. And thankfully, due to me being a nurse, I use the skills that I often use with my patients to improve myself.

[05:41] And that really helped me overcome this place of burnout that I found myself in.

[05:47] Michelle: A very sobering story. And,

[05:50] you know, it's sad in a way that we have to get to that place where we're so depleted and just so empty that we are forced to look within ourselves and say, what's going on?

[06:09] It's really not supposed to be this way. I'm not supposed to feel this way. Even though, like you said, when we do experience those symptoms,

[06:19] we are told, well, yeah, this comes with the territory. You're a nurse, you work long shifts, 

[06:26] You handle really stressful things during your day,

[06:30] and it's no wonder that you're tired. And so I think we wait so long to ask for help, to seek help, because it's just so normalized within our industry.

[06:44] And I think that that is changing and I'm glad that you're here today because you are one of the people who are changing the narrative and really fostering self care.

[07:02] And we'll talk about self care because,

[07:05] that's a whole other beast, right?

[07:10] Sheena: It is.

[07:11] It sure is. It sure is. In this, you know, in nursing, we are working under the strains, the pressures, you know, being, you know, short staff, you know, we are not talking up about how we're feeling because we're often silenced in,

[07:31] in our workplaces, you know, by our managers, by, you know, our peers because we're not used to seeing anyone talking about it. And that's the thing. We're too conditioned, too conditioned in a space.

[07:45] And I get it, because this is what we know, right? We've been doing it for many years if we spend half of our life at our jobs. And so you're going to take on things that you see, you're going to role model behaviors that you see and you're going to practice bad habits and maybe some good habits.

[08:06] So it's quite a natural place to learn, you know, in your workplace. So I get it, I get why it's hard for some to really say what they feel and come out of that space.

[08:22] Michelle: Yes. And hopefully today we're going to make steps in normalizing,

[08:28] talking about it and seeking help for it. But let's just talk about burnout specifically. So what are some of the symptoms that we can experience going through burnout?

[08:40] Sheena: Ah,

[08:41] now this is, you know, some things that could be contributed to other symptoms. You know, the headache, the muscle skeletal pain, being, being weary, lacking motivation, you know, having indigestion of unknown cause because you go to the gp, sorry, your doctor, we say GP here, general practitioner.

[09:05] And you know, you do all the tests and you run all the, the scans and everything's normal and you're kind of wondering what's going on. You know, you're having your heart beating out of your chest, you're having palpitations on the job, everything makes you so irritable and you're not knowing what's happening.

[09:25] So the symptoms can be associated with other things. But one thing for sure is sitting with these feelings and asking them, what are these feelings? Where did these feelings come from?

[09:36] What is triggering me to feel this way? When I wake up in the morning, you wake up in the morning and you snooze a clock. You can't go. You don't want to go into work because you might be thinking, everybody feels like this, right?

[09:49] I don't want to go to work tomorrow. But it could be that, that space that you're going into, you know, what's the uncertainties that's going to be happening there or maybe the toxicity of the environment.

[10:02] So it's asking yourself, what is contributing to me feeling this way, all the triggers. So you find the symptoms can be linked to other, you know, diseases or other illnesses.

[10:15] But knowing that, you know, you might have indigestion, loss of muscle, skeletal pain, insomnia. Big one, big one for me because during COVID or time, I was burned out as well.

[10:29] I couldn't fall asleep without listening to a book. That's how I had to. And that was great because at least I had a tool. But I find I found myself just staying up and cannot shut off from the work.

[10:44] I could hear the buzzing of the machines because working into intensive care, you do hear a lot of buzz, a lot of alarms going off. And sometimes you come home, you keep on hearing those alarms in your head and you kind of worry, oh my gosh, did I do everything?

[11:03] You know, did I do all my medicines? Did I write all the things down? Because again,

[11:08] your job comes with a lot of responsibility and so you take that home and then it builds up and it becomes a chronic,

[11:18] chronic illness.

[11:20] That's what burnout is.

[11:22] Michelle: Yeah, I like that you defined it as such a chronic illness. And I think we, we just, we don't see it like that. Most of us, we see it as like the, just the stressors of the job.

[11:35] Being a NICU nurse for so many years, I have experienced alarm fatigue and it's real.

[11:43] And you know, I remember coming home from a 12-hour shift and walking in and my husband was watching TV and the first thing I said was, can you turn that down?

[11:55] And he was like, it's not really loud. And I go, it's loud to me. Everything that isn't completely quiet is loud to me right now because I have heard alarms for 12 hours nonstop.

[12:11] Sheena: Yeah, I can really relate to that. The alarms will. And I've never heard that statement before. Alarm fatigue. That's beautiful.

[12:22] Yeah, that is beautiful. But yes, we're so wired into,

[12:29] you know, just thinking outside of ourselves. We're wired to be give the giving to everyone else, you know, and most importantly, it's a person that is giving that really needs to be filled up.

[12:43] Michelle: Right.

[12:44] Sheena: We are. So it's so natural for nurses to be giving. And if you've done it for 20 years, that's why it's so necessary when you get to, you know, this part of your life where you're figuring things out and you're feeling

[12:59] Some emotions. And we're going through a lot of, you know, other.

[13:03] Other illnesses. Not illnesses, but, you know, the menopause, the life crisis and so forth like that. So it's really necessary that we really start checking in on ourselves and giving ourselves some form of comfort and calm and shut off the alarms.

[13:21] Shut off the alarms. That's what I would say.

[13:23] Michelle: Yeah. Shut off the alarms.

[13:26] Literally and metaphorically. Right?

[13:29] Yeah. Shut down your autonomic nervous system. All those alarms that are going off constantly. Yeah. Wow, that's great. Well, Sheena, did you see or have you seen an increase in burnout since COVID You know what?

[13:49] Sheena: I think it exists.

[13:51] But lots of nurses that I've spoken to, some of my clients, they don't know what that is.

[13:57] They don't know what burnout is. Figure it's the word in itself that really confuses people because it's just used, you know, everywhere. It's not defined properly. Nobody knows exactly what the word burnout is.

[14:13] But if you ask people if they're tired. Yes. Exhausted. Yes. I'm drained. Yes. You know, I'm overwhelmed. Yes.

[14:22] There's lots of that. So when you sum all of those words up,

[14:25] that constitutes burnout.

[14:27] That is your burnout right there. You're overworking yourself. You're overextending yourself. You're over giving yourself. And these are the things contributing to your discomfort, which is burnout, ultimately.

[14:42] Michelle: Yeah. I think mental, physical, emotional, spiritual exhaustion.

[14:50] Sheena: Yep.

[14:50] Michelle:  And people can relate to that. But as you said, you know, burnout, that word is just kind of used so carelessly.

[15:01] Sheena: Carelessly, yes.

[15:03] Michelle: When you start breaking it down like you just did,

[15:07] it becomes something more real and something very serious.

[15:14] Yeah, yeah. It's not just a word thrown out there. Burnout. Yeah. So I like that you categorized it as such.

[15:23] Okay. So are you in the UK Sheena?

[15:26] Sheena: I'm in the UK. I live about 10 miles from London, so I'm an hour by train from London city.

[15:36] Michelle: Nice. Very nice.

[15:38] So are nurses going through burnout geographically? Like, are there more nurses burning out in the United States?

[15:48] In the UK in certain countries? Have you seen a trend with that? What's your take on that.

[15:55] Sheena: So in a study done with our Royal College of Nursing that I, you know, with my coaching, I kind of like read around all these topics and in 2023, there was like 27,000 nurses who left the profession.

[16:09] And half of those nurses,

[16:11] they contributed their leaving the profession due to burnout. They were burned out and that's why they had to leave and they weren't supported. No one really acknowledged that they were, you know, feeling this way.

[16:26] Yeah, what I hear in the news,

[16:29] it's worldwide, it's global. Nurses are tired. You know, we talk about not getting enough pay, we talk about not having enough resources in terms of human resources on the floor to take care of patients.

[16:45] Right now in the UK, there's lots of patients being cared for in the corridors because there are not enough nurses.

[16:54] And so the conclusion could be,

[16:58] because we may not have the statistics, is that nurses are choosing other things.

[17:04] Nurses are choosing not to be a part of some organizations due to what's in the media. Right. Due to other nurses saying, this is how it is. The media is wild, you know, and so it breaks my heart because I love my profession.

[17:23] There's more nurses being, you know, more people choosing nursing, I should say. But the media and what's being fed out there is that nurses are leaving the profession and it's a real thing because of what is going on inside these hospitals or these health.

[17:42] sectors. So I would say there are nurses leaving. Possibly the statistics doesn't say this because they don't want to scare people to believe that nurses are really leaving. But yes, nurses are leaving.

[17:54] Michelle: Nurses are leaving. And that's the reality. And I can say, personally, I've spoken with so many nurses this platform who have left the bedside and I haven't talked to a lot of nurses who have left nursing, but they've pivoted.

[18:13] And so maybe like yourself, they've become coaches,

[18:17] they have entered into entrepreneurship, 

[18:21] they have become inventors and innovators and really gone into, in the business route.

[18:29] So nurses are leaving. And,

[18:33] you know, it's something that we, I think we've tried to deny for a long time, but there's no denying it.

[18:41] Sheena: It's happening. We're unleashing a different type of nursing and I love that. I think you recently had a nursepreneur on your podcast I was listening to recently. Is it Farah?

[18:54] Yes, yes.

[18:55] Michelle: She was amazing.

[18:58] Sheena: Yes. And I was like, I love it. I love how innovative, versatile nursing has become. And even these new nurses, they're speaking up, they are doing other things. You know, they're going into aesthetics and, you know, branding, and they're reaching out and they're speaking up now, they're teaching, you know,

[19:19] and it's just so beautiful to see how the nursing profession has really evolved. So, you know, they should be scared right now because more of us are choosing other things.

[19:30] And I'm such an advocate for nursing, doing other things than nursing, because there's more joy when it's balanced. There's more peace when you love what you do, but you also love having a hobby, you know, exploring other cultures and, you know, meeting new people.

[19:49] It's such a beautiful thing to see.

[19:51] Michelle: Yeah, I've talked about that a lot on this show as well, that I was very tied up in my nursing identity and it was very difficult for me to transition to being retired and not, you know, going into work every day.

[20:09] And the other thing was when. When I became a nurse in 1985, I thought you're a nurse and you work in a hospital and that's what you do for your whole career.

[20:23] And I'm finding out there are so many different aspects of nursing and you don't have to stay at the bedside forever. If you love it, do it. If you don't love it, like my friend Erica Browning says, Rebel Nurse Podcast, like, do something else.

[20:43] Sheena: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Try something else. Well, I talk to myself a lot. Could be the first signs of, you know, 

[20:57] Unleashing my best self. But I'm saying, like, if you are in a space where you are scared to move, and I do this with lots of my mentees as well, they're scared to go for a promotion because they think they need another qualification.

[21:14] They're scared to do another course. They scared to, you know, try new things. What's the worst thing that could happen? What is the worst thing that could happen?

[21:27] Yes, you might. It might not work out, but, yes, you had a go at it and you had some experience, and then you can go another way, right? And so it's you.

[21:36] That's the only way you're going to know unless you try. This was scary for me as well.

[21:42] On camera, speaking on Instagram, spreading this message out there to the world that we need to put our salesforce nurses, like I'm speaking, I might get shut up. One of these days, like Sheena, get off the Internet.

[21:59] It's scary. Because we have a pin to protect. And so you don't want to be saying the wrong things, especially I'm still a practicing nurse and you don't want to get in trouble.

[22:09] So you just have to be mindful of what you put out there as well. But I'm saying, but I'm saying good things. I'm not telling anyone to leave the profession.

[22:17] I'm telling persons to put pouring to themselves, practice more self care, you know, find other things outside of nursing because that could help you stay in nursing and still love nursing.

[22:30] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. You know, you're not out there saying get out of nursing. You're saying you chose this for a reason and you, you know, you loved it at one point.

[22:43] And now through whatever course you are experiencing these feelings of burnout. And here's how to get back to where you love nursing again and where you're really caring for yourself again.

[23:02] Because we put ourselves on the back burner all the time.

[23:07] Sheena: All the time. You know, not only as a nurse, but also as a mom, as a big sister.

[23:15] You do it a lot. Yes. So it's really important that we really start checking in. And I do. I'm not sure if it's because I get to this age not telling my age on the wide web.

[23:29] We don't want to do that.

[23:31] But you get to a space where you've had, you've kind of had enough. You've had enough of, you know, dimming your light. You had enough of, you know, keeping in a box because you know that there's more of you to give.

[23:45] You know that you don't deserve to be in this state of overwhelm, you know, that, you know, there's beauty on the other side of this burnout, you know, and so be around people, you know, learn about what you feel,

[24:02] enjoy what you feel. Because some of these feelings are great. They're not going to harm you. No one's going to die from having a feeling. I don't think anyone's died from having a feeling.

[24:12] And so it will pass, you know, it will pass just like a surfer on a wave. It can be rough at one minute and then it smooths out and then, yeah, you're at shore.

[24:25] Michelle: Love that. Love that.

[24:27] Well, you have a great downloadable PDF. It's called Beating Burnout Blueprint and I downloaded that. And earlier we talked about self care and we hear a lot about self care.

[24:39] But I think there are some misconceptions about it. So some of the misconceptions are, you know,

[24:45] drinking, indulging in food. It's like when we think about caring for ourselves, we're going to have, you know,

[24:54] we're gonna go day drinking and, and you know, we're gonna eat all of our favorite not-so-nutritionally-packed foods. But Sheena, what is healthy self care?

[25:07] Sheena: Oh,

[25:09] I love to call it indulgent self care. Make your self care indulgent. And it can mean so much to different, so many things to different people.

[25:19] But what I found out was, you're right, it doesn't have to be anything big. It doesn't have to be anything luxurious, anything grand. It just needs to be something that you're going to enjoy.

[25:30] Something you are going to enjoy.

[25:33] For example, I didn't know I would like hugging a tree. What is that? Oh,

[25:40] I went after Covid and you know, they opened up the airports. I went to Mexico and I was asked to hug this tree and I was like, what is this?

[25:53] And it felt so beautiful.

[25:56] I couldn't get around the tree and I was like, wow, this is so nice.

[26:02] So when I get home, I got a tree in my yard. I just go outside and I hug the tree and it makes me smile, it warms my heart. I feel so relaxed.

[26:12] And it's such a beautiful thing to be in that moment with the tree, with the, the bark against your hands, against your body, just like, wow, this is a moment.

[26:23] So it can be simple things, you know, touching the earth. How many times do we touch the earth with our bare feet?

[26:31] Yeah,

[26:33] simple things. Simple things.

[26:35] You know, take up knitting if you've not done anything like that. Take up a new hobby, pottery, you know, take up something that you've never ever, you know, done before because you never know what simple things can give you that pleasure.

[26:51] Yeah, it doesn't have to be luxurious, but it's very necessary that you, you practice good,

[26:59] good self care that's going to bring you that joy. So whether that be sitting with yourself and journaling, listening to some meditation, or you've done this playlist that you enjoy, not anybody's playlist, but something that brings you a little bit of happiness within yourselves.

[27:15] I think one of my friends told me about a, she made a playlist from when she was 16 years old.

[27:23] Michelle: Oh, wow.

[27:24] Sheena: Yes. And every time she's in a bad mood, she puts that playlist on and it just gives her the vibe. And I was like, let me hear that playlist.

[27:37] And she's like, no, it's my playlist. You don't want to hear it. And I'm like, oh, I'm very curious now. You know, as nurses, we're very curious. We find out.

[27:45] Michelle: Very curious. You mean we're nosy, right?

[27:48] Sheena: We are nosy. That's the word.

[27:51] Michelle: I know.

[27:52] No, playlists are awesome. And I just recently figured out how to make playlists. And my 15-year old niece visited recently from San Diego and she was on the way, on the way here, my brother was driving with her and I said, what are you listening to

[28:12] In the car? And she sent me her playlist from Spotify and I listened to that,

[28:19] you know, pretty frequently because it, when I listened to it, it's not, you know, it's not my jam. Those aren't my songs. I hadn't heard of probably 99% of those songs because I'm not living in the 15-year old space.

[28:37] Right.

[28:38] Sheena: That's right.

[28:39] Michelle: But I love it because every time I listen I'm thinking about her and I'm feeling connected to her.

[28:47] And so those are some things that we can do for ourself that are really special. Same for.

[28:54] I recently created a playlist,

[28:57] I lost one of my brothers in 2005 who I was very close to and I just decided I'm going to make a playlist of all of his favorite songs that we listened to back in the day, you know, back in the 80s and the 90s and the 70s and 70s in there and same thing.

[29:17] You know, when I listen to that, when I'm walking or whatever, I feel connected and close to my brother and I think those are really easy, simple things that we can do to care for ourselves.

[29:31] Sheena: Can I just say how beautiful that was? You know, thank you for sharing that special moment.

[29:37] It just melted me. I had goosebumps, you know, talking about your brother and you know, how beautiful that playlist is and, and what it does for you, you know, bringing you that connection and stuff.

[29:47] That's. That was very beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

[29:51] Michelle: Yeah, music is huge music. It is, it's huge. It gets us through a lot.

[29:57] So one of the things that I'm bad at, Sheena, I'm bad at boundaries. Now, I'm better than I was, so I'm making improvements.

[30:08] But talk about how you would coach someone with unclear boundaries.

[30:14] Sheena: Whoa.

[30:16] So what does your boundary currently look like? You know, that's one of the first questions I would ask.

[30:24] What does it look like now? And then, you know, what would you like it to look like? What would you like to set boundaries on? Because sometimes I hear I can't say no to my manager when she asks me to do that extra task.

[30:39] She keeps on piling on all those tasks that no one else wants to do.

[30:45] Michelle: That was me.

[30:46] Sheena: And she puts it on me. That was you?

[30:49] Michelle: That was me. And I just kept saying yes and feeling like I was sinking, yeah, yeah.

[30:58] Sheena: And I would then say to so, okay, so what would it look like if you start saying no? What would happen? And then the smile that comes across their face, like, I would have so much more time to go home, work from work early.

[31:15] I would be able to go with my friends to have tea and coffee. All the things that they would do if they were able to say no. And I'm like, okay, let's teach you how to do that.

[31:27] Let's give you some boundary cards so you can start saying your nos and owning them and sticking to them. Because, you know, what we have to understand is that boundaries are an act of kindness.

[31:42] This is something you're doing for yourself. This is how you're allowing people to treat you. Because the way in which you treat yourself, because if you have no boundaries, people will just walk over you.

[31:52] It's like laying a mat on the floor and just invite people to just say, okay, I'm here. Do this and do this and do more and do more. So once you allow it,

[32:03] then you know you'll keep on getting it. So you have to now lay the foundation, draw the line. I'm sorry. This is where it stops right here. And it's a no.

[32:15] We don't like silence. I had to learn it myself, Michelle. This was not a easy thing for me to do as a team leader, as a leader within my role.

[32:25] I'm a nurse practitioner. And so I had to really decide that, no, not today, we're not doing an extra shift. Sheena, you deserve to go home and cook for your family and listen to your son when he comes from school and have that conversation, you know, and be there to pick him up from his football.

[32:43] These are what's important. So if you figure out what's important first,

[32:47] if I say yes to these things, I'm ultimately saying no to my family time, no to my son having his conversation, no to my son football. And those are important things.

[33:00] So it's going to drive me to say, sorry, it's a no today, and leave it there.

[33:06] Michelle: Yeah. And not making excuses.

[33:09] And like you said, silence. People are very uncomfortable with silence.

[33:16] We feel like we have to fill it. Yeah. We have to make excuses,

[33:22] and we don't. And I think for so many people,

[33:27] unclear boundaries have to do with people-pleasing a lot. And I think a lot of nurses are people-pleasers.

[33:37] Sheena: Yeah.

[33:38] Michelle: And it's hard to step away from that. We want everybody to be happy. We don't like it when there's conflict.

[33:47] It makes us feel very uncomfortable. So we're willing to keep saying yes so that others don't feel uncomfortable or we don't feel uncomfortable saying no. That's it.

[34:02] Sheena: That's it. And it goes deeper than this. It goes really deeper. And, you know, you touched on people-pleasing. Where did that come from? It stems from what we know, you know, from our childhood.

[34:13] We have been told many times, you know, you know, that's a bad thing to do. That's really bad of you. Why did you do that? You know? And so we grew up with this fear of if we say no to things, we're letting people down, and we don't want to do that.

[34:32] We don't want to be in people's bad books. We want to feel, you know, like, you know, with the A-team. We want to be on the A-team.

[34:41] Michelle: I love it. Yes. We want to be on the A-team.

[34:45] Sheena: Yeah.

[34:46] Michelle: So I've talked about this many times about how I was very tied to my nurse identity and had difficulty in retirement the first year.

[34:56] So how can nurses cultivate more self and less nurse?

[35:02] Sheena: Ooh.

[35:06] So this was a very big one for me because I always.

[35:11] thought nursing would be it. I'd be retiring at 68 years old,

[35:18] having, you know, won an award or, you know, designed some service within my trust. And. Yeah, and I'll get my award saying I've spent all these years being the best nurse ever.

[35:33] But then, no, I realized in my state of burnout that this wasn't it. This wasn't. This is not going to be my next 20 years, 30 years. I needed 

[35:47] To choose something else.

[35:50] I was bored. This can't be it. And so we have to start to design something else that's going to make us happy and make us enjoy both worlds.

[36:03] Right. And so in order to do this, I had to find, okay, what does Sheena like? What is our values? What is our belief?

[36:12] What are my principles? What are these things? Who am I if I'm not nursing, asking all these questions? If I wasn't a nurse, what do you would you see me doing?

[36:22] What are some of the things that I like? I had to ask my family these questions because I didn't know them. All I knew was nursing. You know, what's the dosage?

[36:32] How many tablets? Who's going to theater today?

[36:38] My brain was all filled with nursing jargon and acronyms and all these kind of things, but I didn't know myself outside of nursing. Michelle. 

[36:51] Was a scary place to be at because I couldn't believe I was asking my mom and my children if I wasn't doing nursing, what else would you see me doing?

[37:01] Like, what kind of person, what do you see me as? And it was an amazing place to be at. And so we all have to ask ourselves these questions.

[37:11] If you weren't doing nursing, what else would you be doing? What are you good at? What are your beliefs? It's a really good place to start.

[37:19] What are your values?

[37:21] Sheena: What are they? Because if you know these things, you'll be guided throughout your whole life,

[37:28] walking in this person that you know who you are, because you don't know who you are. You enter into a nursing place and you decide to be whoever they want you to be.

[37:38] You take all the the tasks, you take all the shifts, you stay silent.

[37:44] You get bad at setting boundaries,

[37:48] you retire, and then you don't know what to do with yourself.

[37:51] And that's not a great place to be at because I've seen it many times as well.

[37:56] Michelle: Yeah, it was a very uncomfortable place to be at, and it took a little while and a lot of introspection and a good therapist to help me navigate that.

[38:10] Sheena: Yes, yes, yes. I had one of those, too. And I thought, oh, no, what, a therapist? What? I don't need one of those. But one came to me, and it was the most.

[38:22] amazing experience that I've ever had to find my true purpose and, you know, to get me back to a place of owning who I am.

[38:31] Michelle: Yeah. Wow.

[38:33] Well, I know that you created a journal. It's called Creating Your Sweet Peace.

[38:38] And I've been a journaler.

[38:42] Journaler? Is that the word?

[38:44] I was going to say journalist. No, I've journaled my entire life,

[38:49] so talk about the benefits that nurses can get from journaling.

[38:56] Sheena: Journaler, I like it. We can say anything we want on this podcast, right?

[38:59] Michelle: I was like, I don't know, make things up.

[39:02] Sheena: Yeah, we make things up.

[39:07] Yes. I created a daily, like a habit tracker journal, and the story behind this was I used journaling as a tool during my burnout phase to document how I was feeling.

[39:22] Because this is one of the tools I got from my many podcasts and my many self help books that this is what's going to help me, right? And I picked up journaling and it was beautiful just to see the things I was writing in there, the things that I was grateful for and just writing things down.

[39:40] And you know, at the same time I was helping my mom, who she had Covid and she was going through a phase of anxiety and she wanted a tool as well.

[39:51] And I kept on telling her, mom, let's do this. You know, how much water are you drinking? How much sleep are you getting?

[39:59] And I would say these things, but she was like, what did you say again? I'm like, you need to write in your notebook how much sleep you got last night, how much water you drank, how did your day go?

[40:13] What was good about today and what could have been done better and what's your goal for tomorrow? And each day she would ask me the same thing and I said, you know what?

[40:23] I am going to design a template for you because you keep on asking me the same thing. So I designed this template and I said, you know what? And then her friend wanted one as well and I said, you know what?

[40:35] This seems like it's going to, it's going to help a few more people. So I, I designed it and I published it on Amazon and it's there now.

[40:44] And it's a really useful tool to use in your beginning phase, if you like, or write throughout your journey. Because I use it daily still. I still write, not in that habit tracker, but I write a, I have many journals.

[41:02] I'm a journal enthusiast, if you might say.

[41:07] Michelle: I love that.

[41:10] Sheena: But it's so necessary to brain dump. That's how useful it is. It helps you to offload because especially as nurses,

[41:17] we, you know, you talk about the alarm fatigue, you talk about the compassionate fatigue, you talk about just being in healthcare fatigue. It's tiring and it's a very good tool to use to brain dump and to lay it all out.

[41:35] And if you don't want to see it again, you don't have to write it all in there, put it away. And that's you. But I know it has a bit of.

[41:43] Some people think that it's, they don't want to write it down because their family might see it, their children might see it. Put it on your phone, record it, or write it, and then put it in water or burn it, but put it somewhere because our brains is processing,

[42:00] downloading, filtering so much information.

[42:05] You find that when you're at a place of discomfort,

[42:10] that is the best tool to use to get things off so you can find space to really absorb something else that's useful.

[42:20] Michelle: I love how you didn't initially design it for a nurse, you designed it for your mom. But like, it's so transferable to nursing. Right. Especially the habit tracking, because sometimes during a shift, we can just feel afterwards that it didn't go well or I feel uneasy about this or whatever.

[42:43] And with the habit tracker, you can go back and say, you know, did I. How much water did I drink? Well, sometimes you feel really crappy because you're dehydrated and you're running around and you have a headache or you have no energy, or it feels like you're moving through quicksand.

[43:03] And so being able to track your habits like that. And also, I like the, the term you used, brain dumping. We have so much on our minds,

[43:15] and to be able to just start writing, there's exercises that you can do where you just start writing everything that comes to mind, everything that comes to mind. And it'll look like craziness on paper.

[43:27] And if somebody inspected it, they would say, this person is certifiable and they need to be locked up. But it helps. That shows how much is on our brain at all times about everything,

[43:42] you know? Yeah. So it's super, super helpful. And I've been a big fan of journaling for my life. And one thing that I'm happy to see, some of the nursing programs here in the US have started incorporating journaling with student nurses.

[44:01] And I think, man, that's a great thing to do.

[44:05] Sheena: That is a big step for wellness. I never remembered anything about, well, being or a wellness session during my nursing career. So it's really a good step in the right direction that it starts.

[44:19] It starts in schools. It starts in schools,

[44:23] and then it hopefully will be, you know, adapted fully in the work environment.

[44:29] But another way of thinking up, you know, I get lots of questions. I don't know what to write in my journal.

[44:34] And I would say, firstly, start with writing three things you're grateful for, three things you're grateful for in the morning. And what I tell my nurse is, you must always be thankful for the work you do, because that will set you up for a good day when you get to the workplace,

[44:50] you know, that's for if you're going to work that day.

[44:52] Michelle: True.

[44:52] Sheena: So, yeah, you know, thank you. You're thankful for waking up. That is thankfulness in itself. And you can expand on that if you like. And the next thing is to be thankful for your family, you know, and your energy and of course, your work, because those are, those are immediate things that you can really be thankful for.

[45:13] Yeah.

[45:14] Michelle: And once we start delving into, like, gratitude, it's, it can become so huge because there's so many things in life that we could be thankful for, but maybe we're just not aware of it.

[45:28] And like a perfect example, last night, yesterday, I got new sheets and I washed these sheets, and the pattern on them reminds me of, like, something in my childhood.

[45:44] They're just, like, comforting in some way. I can't explain it. And they're a hundred percent cotton.

[45:52] And when I got into bed last night, I was just like.

[45:58] And I was thanking the Lord for my sheets, like, yeah, thank you that first of all, that I have a bed to sleep in and that these sheets are so comfortable and so comforting and cozy and like,

[46:16] it's really small, but it's really big.

[46:18] Sheena: Oh, it is. Oh, that sounds so lush. I'm gonna go into bed tonight thinking, oh, what about your sheets? What sheets were there? What prints was on the sheets?

[46:31] Michelle: I know they're a floral print, but it's this retro. I don't know, it reminds me of my grandmother somehow. And it's just like, oh, it's so comforting and nostalgic.

[46:44] Yeah.

[46:45] Sheena: Yeah. I love that. I love that. I love the questioning aspect, like why, I love asking why. Why did you feel like that? Why,

[46:55] you know, exporting, exploring your why is. It's a good place as well.

[47:01] Michelle: Why do you feel.

[47:02] Sheena: What do. Grandma. Yeah, that's a nice, that's a nice thought, but exactly. I remember just now about even when you practice gratitude with your children as well, as a parent, I recently,

[47:18] I found it necessary to practice gratitude with them as well. What are you grateful for this morning? Give me one thing before he goes out the door, before my daughter goes out the door as well.

[47:27] And, you know, I recently went to the supermarket and I was paying for my grocery, and I said, oh, thank God I could pay for this.

[47:34] Michelle: Yeah.

[47:35] Sheena: What are you saying that for? Why you say that?

[47:37] Michelle: Yes.

[47:39] Sheena: And I'm like, this is, I mean, if I didn't have a job, I wouldn't have money, and I wouldn't be able to afford this. I'm grateful I can afford this. So I can give you food to eat.

[47:48] Michelle: Yes.

[47:49] Sheena: This is a blessing.

[47:51] Michelle: Yes. I love that. That was me yesterday, Sheena. I paid my taxes yesterday.

[47:58] And, you know, as painful as that can be sometimes,

[48:02] I found myself grateful that I could pay my taxes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[48:07] Sheena: I tell you, it's such a good, good feeling, and it's a good place to be at. I am really grateful for the work that I've been doing on myself.

[48:18] Just accepting each and every moment that's been given to me, just living right now, knowing that I've done the best I could, you know, at work, doing the best I can with my family.

[48:31] I'm doing the best I can for me, and there's always room for improvement. That's what I say.

[48:38] Michelle: Love it. Well, I want to talk about your podcast before we close here, because you have a new venture, and that's your podcast, Prioritize You.

[48:49] Yeah. And I listened to your first episode, and it was fantastic. I love it. It feels like I'm just, like, talking to a friend. 

[48:58] Sheena: Whoa.

[48:59] Michelle: Yeah, it was so comfortable and relaxed. And all of your giggling in there is so great because your laugh is so great. I love it. So tell me about your podcast and, like, why did you start that?

[49:15] What's the motivation? What do you hope to achieve with the podcast?

[49:20] Sheena: Thank you for listening. Thank you so much. You know, I really appreciate you. You know, when I reached out to you a few months ago, and I was just, like, connected right there.

[49:29] So it's really nice that we're having this conversation right now and on your podcast, talking about my podcast,

[49:37] but I had a big thing about my voice and how I speak.

[49:44] I always told myself I won't be able to speak in front of people.

[49:50] I won't be able to teach. I can't do presentations because of my accent. I'm Jamaican. My accent might not be, you know, come across all good.

[50:02] Comparing myself to other speakers. I am not one of them. And so that stopped me from doing what I'm really doing now. So I had to get over that lies that I was telling myself.

[50:14] This podcast came about from, you know, my journey to teaching and telling my story and spreading the message about prioritizing yourself. I wanted to have workshop for nurses, and so I invested in public speaking coaches to help me get over this lies that I've been telling.

[50:37] Myself, right? I know every time I say it, someone is like, what are you talking about? But these are some of the things we tell ourselves, and we stop ourselves from moving forward.

[50:46] We think we're not good enough. And that comes through healing from a place of those wounds. That's, you know, we grew up with, you know, not being told that you're good enough.

[50:57] And you just bring that right into your career, right into your adult life. And so this year, I said, this year, I am going to start a podcast,

[51:07] and I'm going to get the same messages that I've been, you know, telling everyone. Because if I'm telling other nurses to step out, be themselves, prioritize themselves, this, too, is about prioritizing myself.

[51:23] This message needs an ear. It needs more people. I need to be getting them, the masses together to really shine a light on what's affecting the nursing profession.

[51:38] And the more platforms I'm on, the more I'm talking about it, the more people will hear it, and the more nurses will start looking after themselves mentally, physically, emotionally, you know, and healing from a place where they didn't even know that these things were affecting them because they're too conditioned

[51:58] step out of this space that they're already in. So this podcast had to happen this year because it was on the vision board.

[52:10] And I woke up one day and I said, listen, I'm starting it today. And I did it on my phone, and I,

[52:18] you know, did some stuff on Canva, and I called a friend who already does podcasts and said, how do you do this? How do you do this? How do you do that?

[52:25] Let's get it up. Let's do it.

[52:27] Michelle: Love it.

[52:27] Sheena: And so that's me stepping out of my comfort zone and showing others that they, too, can get out of that box. They can be brave, they can be bold, and they can bounce out of burnout into that balanced lifestyle that they want to live, that they envision for themselves, that they desire,

[52:49] or they know that they deserve to live unapologetically.

[52:54] Michelle: I love that you said bounce out of burnout. Like, that created a mental picture for me. It wasn't climb out of burnout. It wasn't claw yourself out of burnout. It was bounce.

[53:10] It was like, you are gonna infuse energy into these nurses so they can literally bounce out of burnout. Yeah, yeah, words are so important, Sheena. And again, I love that format.

[53:27] You know, I love nurses helping nurses. And about the podcast particulars, I love Canva, do you just love Canva? It's such a creative process.

[53:37] Sheena: I love it.

[53:38] Michelle: And I have to ask you, what do your kids think when they see your mom having a podcast? Are they just like, she is a badass.

[53:53] Sheena: You know what? I should ask them what they think of me. I think they're really proud of me. Really? I gotta ask them now, but sometimes I think they think, what is she up to now?

[54:02] What is this? Because my son will, like, give me a little laugh. Like what? Like, you know, give me this laugh. And he must be thinking, what are you up to too,

[54:13] again?

[54:14] I love you all this videoing, but I think he, my son is 15 and my daughter's 26, and she gets it. She's like, mom, do your thing. You know, my husband is the same, you know, do your thing.

[54:28] They've got used to me now because, you know, I'm just like that rabbit

[54:32] Michelle: the energizer bunny.

[54:37] Sheena: Yeah. It's like, Michelle, since I've really got to this place of knowing who I am, my beliefs, my values and all that kind of stuff, and know I can enjoy my nursing as much as I enjoy things out of it, I've just been bouncing.

[54:49] I need. And I had to tell myself in January, sheena, stop. One thing at a time,

[54:54] one thing at a time, please. Because I have that kind of girl who would be exercising and they'd have a little break to demonstrate and I'd be putting stuff into the dishwasher.

[55:07] Michelle: That's me. I hate that. 

[55:10] Sheena: Yes.

[55:10] Michelle: You know, multitasking, right? We're the queens of multitasking. But then I read this huge, huge study that said, like, multitasking is really not good for your brain. So I've been trying to stop and just tell myself exactly what you said.

[55:27] Michelle, stop it. One thing at a time. One thing at a time. Just focus.

[55:32] Sheena: Yeah, that's it. That's it.

[55:34] Michelle: I love it.

[55:35] Sheena: Telling yourself one Sheena stop. Go back. Go back and do that. I've been, like, talking mad to myself, like, Sheena, stop. Go back to the exercise. You cannot do that and really do.

[55:46] It's gonna be the same time what you're doing.

[55:51] Michelle: I love it, I love it. It's just such an exciting time, I think. And we just wanna do all the things and when podcasting is such a great platform for reaching so many people and you do a lot of one on one coaching.

[56:07] I know, but being able to have these episodes that talk about the things that you're talking about today.

[56:16] You're reaching so many people, and those people can share it and say, hey, I found this new podcast and oh, send it to me. And so I love it and I love that you're in this space.

[56:29] Sheena: Oh, thank you. And it was podcasts that helped me out of my state. I listened to so many podcasts during my time in the car, you know, in my headphones when I'm alone,

[56:43] you know, when I didn't want to tell anyone. That's what I was listening to. Just trying to get some tips, you know, to help me out of that place. I know if my story gets to someone who's experiencing a discomfort of any, any sort, you know, hopefully it can help them realize that it's temporary,

[57:03] it can be fixed when caught, you know, and you can do something about it and you can have a more fulfilling life.

[57:13] Michelle: And that's what people need to hear that are so entrenched in the feelings of burnout. They need the, the hope that there can be a better life. And, and that's why you're here today, because you've proven that and you've bounced out of burnout yourself.

[57:31] Yeah. And I see a book coming from you, Sheena. Bounce Out of Burnout.

[57:38] Sheena: Yeah, let me write that down.

[57:40] Michelle: Write it down, girl. Write it down. And pretty soon you're gonna be walking and writing your book at the same time.

[57:50] Sheena: Doing the washing and exercising and hugging a tree.

[57:56] Michelle: Everything, all the things. Oh my gosh, I love it.

[58:01] Well, Sheena, I have gotten so many great guests that have been recommended by other guests on this podcast. So is there someone you recommend as a guest on the Conversing Nurse podcast?

[58:17] Sheena: Well, I know this beautiful nurse. Well, she's not a nurse. She is a manifesting coach and she's called Mercedes Castellini. And she is the most beautiful person I've met this year.

[58:31] We did a 21-day manifesting challenge and she really opened up, you know, something within myself during these 21 days, you know, it allowed me to sit with myself a bit more as well and practice my meditation because I was a bit rubbish at that.

[58:50] But having to do this for 21 days and spending time with her, with her coaching, and she's so soothing. I love her. So, yeah, she does the BIA Manifesting podcast and she is a beautiful source of energy and light.

[59:08] You know, she just helps you through, you know, any day. So, yeah, Mercedes

[59:15] Michelle: I would love a connection with Mercedes. Thank you so much. And where can we find you, Sheena?

[59:22] Sheena: Well, I'm on so many platforms trying to just get this message to so many ears. And I am on Instagram, I am as coach Sheena Johnson. I am on Facebook,

[59:36] I am on TikTok. I'm hanging with the young ones.

[59:42] Michelle: Love it, love it.

[59:44] Sheena: I'm also on LinkedIn for the professional life too. So hopefully, you know, healthcare organizations can find me to deliver some form of workshop for their nurses and healthcare workers if they want to improve retention.

[01:00:00] Here I am. I'm gonna tell you, get your nurses to stay.

[01:00:05] Yeah, by putting themselves Mercedes and. And yeah, and now I am on Spotify and Apple and all these lovely places. So, yeah, reach out, say hi, ask me a question, I'm happy to answer them for you.

[01:00:24] Michelle: Love everything that you're doing. Again, great respect for nurses that are lending a helping hand to their fellow nurses. I just absolutely love it. And Sheena, I've loved having you on today again.

[01:00:39] Your bubbly personality, your beautiful smile, your laugh, your energy,

[01:00:47] it's coming all the way from the UK over here to the United States. And I've just been such a grateful recipient of your joy today. So thank you so much.

[01:01:01] Sheena: And thank you so much for having me. I felt so comfortable from this side of the lens looking at your beautiful top as well. I'm like, yes, she is gorgeous as her voice is so soothing as well.

[01:01:14] I really love you on your podcast and thank you so much for having me. It's been a real pleasure.

[01:01:19] Michelle: Thank you. Thank you so much for those kind words. Well, we've already had a lot of fun during this episode, but it's. We're down to the last five minutes and it's five minutes of fun.

[01:01:31] So are you ready, Sheena?

[01:01:33] Sheena: Oh, gotta get my, my, my fun hat on.

[01:01:37] Michelle: Put your fun hat on, girl.

[01:01:40] Okay, we're gonna start.

[01:02:23] Convince me to live in your hometown.

[01:02:26] Sheena: Oh, the weather is rubbish. The ice is on the floor there.

[01:02:35] Michelle: Oh, no.

[01:02:36] Sheena: You want to come here? It's so much fun.

[01:02:43] Well, in the UK, winters are not the greatest. It's just a horrible gloom and doom. So now it's spring outside, and the sun is shining. The blossoms are coming out.

[01:02:55] Everything is so lush. So spring has come to London, it's spring. It's beautiful.

[01:03:01] Michelle: Yes. Love it. I saw some pictures on your Instagram, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, it looks so beautiful.

[01:03:08] Sheena: It's lovely today.

[01:03:10] Michelle: Okay, this is a Finish the sentence. On my best days, I make sure to_________

[01:03:20] Sheena: Clean the toilet.

[01:03:23] Michelle: I never expected that.

[01:03:25] Sheena: I'm such an OCD. Listen, this place needs to be spotless. Yes, that's great.

[01:03:33] Michelle: Okay, here's another.

[01:03:34] Sheena: Nurses make good cleaners, for sure.

[01:03:38] Michelle: We are. We're OCD, like you said. Our families maybe don't like us so much, but we.

[01:03:45] Sheena: Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. My daughter would tell you. Yes. Stories.

[01:03:51] Michelle: Okay, here's another: Finish this sentence: On my worst days, I make sure to ___________

[01:03:57] Sheena: To blank binge Netflix series with popcorn. In bed with nachos with.

[01:04:07] Michelle: Oh, my God.

[01:04:08] Sheena: I don't have ice cream, but I have a cup of tea. It's messy. It's messy. Michelle. All. Yes. Get a real hit. That's my lousy day. Like, yes.

[01:04:20] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Okay, favorite local restaurant or cuisine.

[01:04:28] Sheena: Right? Well, I love a Thai. I love a Pad Thai. I love everything Thai. Come to think of I'm in Thailand next week, but yes, I love a Thai. Thai restaurant is my favorite.

[01:04:42] The one here that I always go to. And anybody who wants to invite me out is the Giggling Squid. Giggling Squid. They make nice lychee cocktails. And really nice, nice food as well.

[01:04:55] Michelle: Oh, I love Thai food. So you like it kind of spicy? 

[01:05:01] Sheena: Oh, this? Oh, yes. Not very, very spicy, because I want to taste my food. I'm not really a hot, hot, hot. I'm like a medium.

[01:05:08] Michelle: Yeah, same. Ooh, Love it. Okay, the Giggling Squid. I'll have to look that up.

[01:05:14] Sheena: Giggling Squid. And it's beautiful inside as well. The decor is nice.

[01:05:20] Michelle: Okay, there's a picture in your home of your favorite travel destination. Where is it and who is in the picture?

[01:05:28] Sheena: Ooh,

[01:05:30] one is just somewhere there. And it's my husband in Vegas. My husband and I in Vegas. I love Vegas. So crazy. There you can spend your whole income. Well, you hold retirement money there.

[01:05:44] Michelle: Easy,

[01:05:46] easy, easy. Yeah,

[01:05:48] that's fun. Yeah, Vegas is fun. When I first got married, the first, I think probably five or six years.

[01:05:56] Every year, my husband and I went to Vegas, and we always took, like, a certain amount of money with us just to basically give away to the casinos.

[01:06:07] Here's our money. Take it.

[01:06:10] No, but he was the type of gambler that was like, you know, he would have one of his slot machines would be at. God, Sheena. It'd be like three or $400.

[01:06:20] And I would say, cash out.

[01:06:22] Sheena: Cash out.

[01:06:23] Michelle: And he's like, no, this machine is paying, I need to keep on doing it. And pretty soon, he'd be down to zero.

[01:06:31] Yeah. And I was the kind that if I got to a hundred or two hundred, I would cash out. So I would always bring money home, and he was always leaving money there.

[01:06:44] Sheena: Crazy when he starts to lose all that money and you're getting, like, cash out, cash out.

[01:06:51] Everyone must be looking at you, thinking, what is wrong with her? We're here to spend money.

[01:06:56] Michelle: Right?

[01:06:57] It's like, no, I want to bring some money home. More than we brought. But no, Vegas is very fun. There's lots of energy. I could see why you like it because you're so energetic and there's so many lights and sounds and things to do.

[01:07:12] It's one of those 24 hour cities. Right?

[01:07:15] Sheena: It's magic. It's magical. Magical.

[01:07:18] Michelle: Okay, so for our last question. So we started playing a new game. It's called five words, five seconds each,

[01:07:28] and no one's counting. So what you do is I'm going to give you one word at a time, and in five seconds, you're going to either define or describe the word.

[01:07:42] So, for example, cat. So you could say furry, whiskers, obnoxious.

[01:07:49] Or you could say a domesticated feline.

[01:07:53] Sheena: Okay, I'll tell you. I'm not good with words. Did I not say that?

[01:08:00] Michelle: Okay, you're gonna do fine. Okay, first word. Lobster 

[01:08:06] Sheena: Claws. Pink. Smelly.

[01:08:11] Michelle: I love to see what people come up with. Okay. Tremor.

[01:08:16] Sheena: Shaky. Earthquake. Oh, gosh. Thailand.

[01:08:21] Michelle: Oh, no. I know.

[01:08:24] Sheena: Oh, no.

[01:08:25] Michelle: Okay. Latte.

[01:08:28] Sheena: Frothy. Milky. Wet.

[01:08:34] Michelle: That's so good. Okay. Asia.

[01:08:37] Sheena: Oh, where is that? Or is that. Is the person a name, a place?

[01:08:43] Michelle: I'm thinking the continent maybe where Thailand is.

[01:08:46] Sheena: Oh, my God, here we go again. Fate. Bags.

[01:08:54] Michelle: Okay, last. Last word. Oboe.

[01:08:59] Sheena: Obo. Chick. Is that what it comes from? Is that the word?

[01:09:04] Michelle: No, oboe is like a musical instrument. It's like you're like, oh, the other oboe.

[01:09:14] Sheena: Loud, playful, hip.

[01:09:20] Michelle: That's right, it is. Usually. I love it. Sheena.

[01:09:24] Sheena: I love this. I love this. Oh, right.

[01:09:27] Michelle: This is so fun. It is so fun. We get to laugh and release all that dopamine again. All those good feeling chemicals.

[01:09:37] Sheena: What a way to start your morning.

[01:09:39] Michelle: Yes, I know. I'm going to go on a walk after this. And so great. Sheena, thank you so much again. I've just loved our conversation.

[01:09:48] Sheena: I loved every second of it. And I am so looking forward to hearing how this comes out because you've laughed so much. You've had me in Keckles.

[01:10:01] Michelle: Same. My cheeks hurt. My cheeks hurt. Girl, I got a cheek workout. So much fun.

[01:10:08] Sheena: And thank you so much for having me on here. I'm really delighted to be a part of it, Conversing with Nurses.

[01:10:17] Michelle: Yes. Have a great day.

[01:10:19] Sheena: You too.