Citizen Nurse, Gilanie De Castro

[00:00] Michelle: If you're my age and can remember over 50 years ago, you might recall those lazy Saturday mornings spent watching Schoolhouse Rock. There was a clever cartoon skit called "I'm Just a Bill" where we'd learn how a bill becomes law. This three-minute video was responsible for teaching an entire generation of kids about civics. Enter Gilanie De Castro, also known as Citizen Nurse on social media, who, through her bite-sized lessons titled, Civics 101 for Healthcare, highlights topics such as how nurses can shape government, how a bill becomes law, how to find your congressperson, and how to use your vote as your voice. Gilanie shared with us how nurses can get involved at the grassroots level of current movements affecting nurses such as the Nursing is STEM movement and the Commission for Nurse Reimbursement. Gilanie's strong passion for advocacy was born out of the moral distress she felt during the pandemic when she realized that the agencies she thought had nurses' backs, did not. Nurses often complain they are not asked for valuable input on health policy decisions. Gilanie's message: don't wait to be asked for your input. Take the initiative and give it! 
In the five-minute snippet: she's got a new lease on life. Here is Gilanie De Castro.  Well, good morning, Gilanie. Welcome to the podcast.

[01:52] Gilanie: Good morning, Michelle. I'm so happy and excited to be here.

[01:56] Michelle: I am, too Gilanie. I sort of met you on Instagram where I have come across so many amazing professionals, and I saw your page, Citizen Nurse, and I was like, oh, my goodness, who is she and what does she do? And so we connected that way. And I'm so glad we did because you have so much to say. So we'll just get started. So part of your bio, you say "I make civic engagement, government, and politics easy to understand so that nurses can learn the rules and change the world." I think that resonates with so many nurses because I think that's what we're all about, changing the world. But tell me how you got involved in civic engagement.

[02:48] Gilanie: I've only been, I suppose the word is active in this area for the last four and a half years or so. When people ask me about my story, I have to really pace myself because, you know, I think all this time has passed since 2020, wherever I feel like I separated myself from the emotions that I was going through during the start of the pandemic. And as I was going through it. But as I'm telling my story, I tend to get really passionate about it still. So anytime, Michelle, if I start talking too quickly, please feel free to slow me down, because it's something I'm very passionate about. So prior to 2020. Well, by background, I'm an oncology nurse. I was a NICU nurse for a little bit. Patient-facing frontline nurse. No ambitions to go other than the bedside. I just moved on through my career, went into leadership, and that leadership journey started in 2018. So a very new supervisor, learning the ropes and just navigating my way through leadership. And then, of course, in 2020, and I would count late 2019 as part of my journey and interest in advocacy. The world changed, not just for nursing or the healthcare profession, but the entire world. Like, literally the entire world. But what the pandemic is, right? It's a disease that was not known to us before. Healthcare, of course, was at the center of it because we didn't know how to treat this disease and how to treat these patients. So I was scared, just like everyone else, in fear of my family, myself, but also the other layer of protecting my nursing team, protecting my coworkers, and who I was in charge of. And our patients, especially our patients working in oncology, have a very vulnerable, immunocompromised population. So just seeing how we had to pivot and change to care for our patients almost overnight was very disconcerting to me, because, you know, these are just like infection control, things like these PPE, where we get PPE, things that we've relied on for so long that changed. And that was the foundation of how we cared for our patients, to make sure that they weren't getting sick and getting through chemotherapy without any delays. So I think it really started with policies that were changing internally at my organization, where it didn't make sense to me, not just as a nurse or a leader, and nothing against the organization I worked at. I think anybody and nursing leadership felt this at the time, like the world over, because we had to change policies sometimes, you know, day by day, hour by hour, and roll out how these changes would affect the frontline staff. And so in the beginning, you know, we tried the best we could, individually, to keep our heads above water and make sure that we were still practicing up to standards. But then that took its toll, right? As the world was going through these challenges together, especially in this country, right? We would listen to what was happening with the CDC and at the time, the policies that they had and try to apply them to how we practiced, it was often confusing, but at the same time, like, okay, this is what we have to do. And then at some point in 2020, when I was feeling very frustrated and not knowing how I would be able to sustain and support my nursing team, but also just, you know, navigating through the world, we didn't have the basics. Do you remember that whole no toilet paper on the shelves and water and all that stuff? Right? So it's like almost the whole Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? When you don't have the basic fundamentals like food, water, where are you going to get that the next day? It's harder to keep all the other areas in your life stable. And so I was very frustrated and even questioning, like, is this something I want to continue doing as a nurse or continue being a nurse? But then also seeing my dedicated staff who was there for the patients, and thinking, I have to do something more. I have to do something for them. And part of my search for what I could do more led me to different nursing organizations. And everything was virtual at the time. So there were all these virtual offerings on how you can navigate through burnout and stress and all these topics that were very prominent during the first year of the pandemic. And then I ran across an email advertising course. I remember, actually, it was a course or some sort of offering from the American Nurses Association California, where it was about nursing advocacy. And so I just listened to it because there was nothing else to do. We couldn't go anywhere, right? We were all at home either on Netflix, Amazon, or podcasts or something. And so just listening to it. And I am not at all, by any means. Well, no, let me backtrack at that time. By any means. I was not interested in politics. I was not interested in anything in the government. Anytime a politically leaning conversation came up, I would be the one to tap out or just like, you know, change the subject. So not into that at all. In my entire life, my entire life, just very neutral. And, you know, I have my own personal political views, but nobody knew them. And just those were conversations I steered away from. But when I started learning about these different sorts of advocacy things and hill days and activities that nurses can do to advocate not just for the profession, but also for our patients, it really made me see things in a different light, that a lot of the issues and problems in healthcare in general needed to be changed. But there was a limit, I felt, from changing it from within the system. You had to go outside the system. And that road led to advocacy or legislation. Or, you know, interacting with these bodies or organizations that made the rules for healthcare and also just personally feeling that sense of loss where I always felt like, as a nurse, somebody was going to be there for us in healthcare. And I tell the story a lot, but it was like my Wizard of Oz moment when, you know, Dorothy and everyone gets to Oz and they peel back the curtain and it's not the great and powerful laws, it's just like some man there, right? So that's how I felt. Like, I always felt like the government was going to be there for us, the city, like somebody, somebody was going to be there for us because, you know, you can't let healthcare fail. But then realizing, oh, my goodness, like, there is really nobody there for us. And we as a profession allowed that to happen because we were relying on anybody else but us to take care of our needs as a profession and what we needed to do for our patients, like, who was there advocating for us. And, you know, at the time, my understanding of things was very naive. Just like thinking, oh, yeah, the hospital has us, or if not the hospital, then the county or the state or the, you know, something on the federal level, like, somebody's gonna get us the things we need. But then in leadership, when you see when you're on the other side of things and people are relying on you and you don't have, like, you know, the answers to things, and you start looking, and then the people above you don't also have the answers, then it's a very, it really rocks. You like, it just. It just makes you question and think about all the things that have come before, and, you know, you kind of go down the rabbit hole of things, of, oh, my gosh, then if they don't have. Have masks here and they're doling these things out, like, what other things are they lacking? And remember those terms that just popped up to the general population's vocabulary became common use in the general population's vocabulary. Like supply chain. Right. Supply chain issues. As a nurse, at least in my career at the time, that was something that I didn't even realize was going to be an issue for nursing. I mean, we have medication shortages, but in terms of just the global logistics of getting gloves and masks and PPE's and fluids and all that stuff, it really helped me see how interconnected everything in this world is in order for us to provide health care for our patients. But we as nurses, as a profession, we have a very important role in making sure that that process flows smoothly, because we're the ones at the bedside, taking care of the patients and advocating for their needs, trying to think what else. But it was just a progressive journey and just meeting people who were also interested in advocacy, nurses that were interested in advocacy, or knowing that if you wanted to enact change in the profession or at the bedside level, you had to really look at legislation, you had to look at regulations and things that were happening at a government level, because those are the decisions that were trickling down to how we care for our patients and the understanding that if you don't have a nurse representing at those high levels, how do they know what is really needed? So the entire representation matters. Absolutely pertains to the nursing profession in any place where healthcare decisions are made, not even healthcare. But if we look at our nursing code of ethics, it goes beyond just healthcare. Right? We think about social justice, we think about acting as one, as a professional body. So there's so many things that we as a profession are responsible for in just creating a healthier community and healthier world. So in a nutshell, a rambling nutshell, that's how I got involved in what I do today.

[13:28] Michelle: That's amazing, Gilanie. You know, so much advocacy came out of the pandemic, and I think that's one of the great things that happened. And, you know, I'll say at the nursing level, I've seen so much advocacy for just each nurse's personal, I guess, choices in how they want to live their nursing career. And we saw, you know, the great resignation. A lot of nurses saying, I don't want to be part of this, you know, suffering that moral distress that you were talking about in terms of just that sobering thought that, oh, you know, I thought someone was here to have my back. Whether it's your upper management, whether, like you said, it's your local, it's your state, it's your federal. And then looking up those chains and saying, nah, nobody really knows what to do. And I think that's where we were all just kind of. It was very sobering time. And I know for nurses at the bedside level and those boots on the ground and for you as a, as a leader, that had to be very difficult as well, to not have the answers for your staff. So that led you into, you know, what can we do at these different government levels, I guess, organizational levels to improve, you know, our lives as nurses. And, you know, I think nurses are natural advocates. Right? We advocate. Yeah, we advocate every day for our patients. But how can nurses take it to a higher level? How can we get engaged in health policy and social change to improve our profession?

[15:31] Gilanie: Wonderful question. Everybody in nursing, you know, is going to approach it from a different level, different understanding. As I said before 2020, I had no clue about how legislation worked, no interest in politics other than, you know, there's an election coming up, I'm going to vote, but nothing beyond that. At the very least, what my ask is of the nursing profession is to understand how the legislative process works, how laws are introduced, bills are introduced, how bills are introduced with the process they have to go through in order to become a law at any level versus whether it's the state or the federal level or even in their community, how those laws are made and how they affect their communities. The reason for this is because at every step of that process, even when the bill is introduced, gets written, it's already going to come from a different, or it's already going to come from somebody's worldview. Like, this is why we have to have this law, because it's going to affect a, b, or c. And if you look at who's in government right now, you have a wide representation of different professions. You have lawyers, you have physicians, even who are in the House of Representatives or Senate or at some level in government. You have businessmen or you have someone that's, you know, maybe a farmer or someone that has no, no defined profession per se, but they want to make a difference in this world. For nurses, we go into the sciences, we go into nursing school. That's what we learn. We're not there to learn about political science or all of that because we're not, that's not our course of study, but it does. It's really important to learn these things because the policies and procedures, your organization are very influenced by what laws are made. And so my mission is for nurses to gain the basics of how a bill becomes a law, how a government regulates these laws after they're made, and finding entry points into this legislative process or decision-making process where nurses can feel like they have a voice and can feel empowered in either supporting legislations that are being made or inserting themselves into a part of that process where they know that the outcome is not going to be good for healthcare or their profession or our patients in general. So my suggestion is really just to learn how that legislative process works. And on my Instagram, I have the hashtag of Civics 101 for Healthcare. It was originally civics 101 for nurses, but, you know, I wanted to broaden it because I had colleagues at the time that were in different disciplines in healthcare, and they were also going through the same frustrations, like, you know, how can, you know, how can I make a change in how this ruling in the laboratory space, like, how can I make a difference in that? Or how can I advocate for my colleagues? So these are very basic things that we learn in elementary school, maybe in high school, but as you progress through life and you go through whatever your passion is, whether it's law or healthcare or anything else, you forget those basics. So I'm not teaching anything new. It's just a reminder of what we learned before. And for nurses to understand how these processes work really empower them to see what's out there and how they can make a difference in terms of how legislation is made or what they can advocate for in a very effective manner.

[19:35] Michelle: Yes. I love your Civics 101 for Healthcare. I personally have learned so much by those little sound bites. And, I mean, it was a long time ago that we learned these things, right? I think I was a senior in high school when I took Civics. And, you know, I think the other thing is I talked with in episode 59, I interviewed John Silver, and he's a PhD-prepared nurse and president of Nurses Transforming Healthcare. And we discussed health policy. And I teased him a lot because, you know, I was like, it's boring, John. Come on. You know, or it's confusing. Like, we don't get it. And I think that's part of the problem, is that instead of educating ourselves about, you know, how does a bill get passed into law? And even knowing who your Congress-people are, right? Who your representatives are, I don't think we know that just generally. And, you know, how do we make health policy sexier or, you know, do we need to? Because, you know, once I interviewed John, I understood that everything we do in nursing is health policy, right?

[20:54] Gilanie: Absolutely.

[20:55] Michelle: Yeah. So how do we make that more interesting?

[20:59] Gilanie: I love how you phrased it. How do you make it something that's not sexy,sexy? Health policy, sexy?  So when I think back to my role as a supervisor at the time and various people from the front staff, patient-facing staff, would ask me, well, why is our organization making us do this? Or don't they care about what we want? Nobody asks us, really reframing the context of that question, not just to be in our organization, because our organization, any healthcare organization is. Is mandated or required by the government to have certain rules. And, you know, how we practice. So it really is not complaining to your manager or supervisor or even CEO. Sometimes it's going to make a difference. It's really peeling back the layers and seeing why this certain policy is in play. And I would say most often time, it's a law that was made at some point, and, you know, how that law has been rolled out and regulated and cascaded down to where that nurse is, that's really what you need to be looking at. And so having. Having it, really having that connection with how laws are made to how you practice or that having that understanding, I think it really makes it real for that nurse. Like, oh, okay, my boss is not enforcing this because she just wants to, or he just wants to. It's because this law was made 20 years ago. Let's see how we can update it. And, you know, nurses today are just, I think, one of the professions that are one of the most educated professions, if not over-educated professions, because how many master's prepared, DNP, PhD, multi certificate nurses are out there. And so we have definitely the skill sets in our profession to look at these laws and regulations and see how we can change them and make them make sense in the world we live in today. Social media actually is a really good way to make legislation sexy because this is where a lot of the younger generation of nurses are, most of them, and it's really taking that nursing concept of meeting the patient population or the patient meeting them where they're at. Right? So one of the tactics I thought about was to be on a platform where most of the younger nurses are who don't know about these things, such as legislation and civics and all that, and meet them where it's entertaining, where it's like a micro learning something that's fun because whether or not you really are paying attention, you know, if you hear something often enough, it kind of sticks in your brain. I mean, that's how I am with social media. Like, I may not be interested in something, but if it comes up on my feed often enough or enough people are saying it, then you're like, okay, there is something to that. And I. And prior to even my Instagram page or, you know, going into social media, I was not someone that would do this. I had my own personal stuff, but that was like, you know, family pictures or, like, outings with my friends, like, things like what generally people use it for. So it really took me a big leap out of my comfort zone in order to do something like this. But knowing my mission and what I wanted to do. And be where nurses are at almost 24/7 you know, holding their phone on the platform, that's entertaining because, you know, as stressful as things are, you know, sometimes people will be like, okay, let me take a break from work. Let me, like, start scrolling just to, you know, get. Get decompressed. Yeah, yeah. Decompress a bit. Or, you know, whether you're waiting in line at the grocery store or at the bank or, you know, even at home. Right. Sometimes you're watching TV and you're on your phone, like, scrolling or something.

[25:16] Michelle: So I'm trying to break that habit. I'm like, just do one thing at a time, Michelle. Yeah.

[25:25] Gilanie: Yes, that's. I think that's it, too, the multitasking that we all do now. So being on a social media platform or platforms, I think, is a good way to reach a large population of nursing through any demographic and provide content that they want to see or not see. But, you know, if it's short enough, 15 seconds, you know, it's. It's something they may learn, like, oh, okay, the. This is how you find your congressman. You click on this button, and sometimes people find it interesting and they want to share and they might scroll through it. But, you know, I still don't understand how algorithms work, but if I put enough content out there, perhaps they might see it again. So I think that's, at least in my view, that's how I would think of making health policy sexy, is going through the channels of social media, pairing it with what happens to be the trending song or what do you call it? Sometimes these memes, they have the same things over and over again, and you tend to have a captive audience. If it's a long post, like a minute or more, they're easy for someone to click out of. But you have the luxury of even creating super, super short posts, whether it's 10 seconds, 15 seconds. And, you know, sometimes before someone can scroll away, they've already heard some part of your message. Right? So make it a good message.

[26:56] Michelle: No, I love it. I love what you've done on your social media. You have an Instagram, you have a YouTube and a TikTok, and they're all fantastic. And I was on there yesterday. I think it was on Instagram where you posted a little thing about, do you know who your congressperson is? And go to Congress.Gov?

[27:16] Gilanie: Yes.

[27:18] Michelle: I immediately went to Congress.Gov and put in my area that I live, and I knew who one of them was, but the other one, I was like, I didn't know that. And I'm like, this is so cool. So it is. I love your little bites. They're so informational and succinct. And fun, definitely. And I can tell you're having fun on there, too. So you know that I'm a fan of professional organizations, and I've talked about them a lot on here, and there's just so many benefits. But what is the role of professional organizations in health policy?

[28:02] Gilanie: It's a very large role because with professional organizations, the focus, I would say, is largely on how that specialty practices. Right. So there's a lot of content on how to improve your clinical practice and education based on that. But the organizations that I belong to, I've been blessed to really be part of their advocacy arm, and a lot of people don't know that. Most of these nursing organizations, professional organizations, they do have an advocacy component to it, because many of these things that regulate the standards of practice for that nursing specialty come from government rules or decisions or legislation or even how we advocate for medications that pertain to that nursing specialty. So my background, I'm an oncology nurse. The Oncology Nursing Society has a wonderful advocacy group, and I was very fortunate to work closely with their previous government affairs director and their current one. And just seeing how they advocate for this professional group of nursing at the government level is just really amazing to me because it allows nurses what the advocacy arm of that professional organization does, allows their particular group of nurses to keep practicing at the top of their scope and provide the best care they can for their patients because they're scanning for pending or current legislation out there that's going to affect the, the specialty. They are advocating for bills that may affect patients or nurses. So, for example, in the oncology space, chemotherapy drugs, how we care for patients after their cancer surgeries or treatment, those are, those are big topics that are lacking in terms of legislation. Like, there's really no laws out there to support caring for these patients or bringing down access to care for these patients. And so the professional organizations are really the ones that can bring the interests of that nursing specialty to Capitol Hill or even to local legislators to make them aware of. These are the issues that these nurses and the patients they care for are facing, and these are our proposed solutions. How can we partner with you in the government space to bring these laws to fruition so that we have solutions to care for our patients better? So I would say that partnering with professional organizations is so important, and it's not exclusive to nursing. You know, the American Medical Association, the state medical associations, or any professional group is going to have a lobbying arm in their professional organization. So nurses have to, they have to be involved on that side of things because we're being outpaced by other professions, other organizations, and it's all about having the loudest voice at the proverbial table. There's that old saying that many people have heard. If you don't have a seat at the table, then you're on the menu. And so, you know, phrasing it that way or framing it that way for nurses hopefully will make them understand the importance of having a voice and being a loud voice. You know, there's so many competing priorities and there's so many things that the government is looking at. But being that loud voice that says here, this is what we need in order to care for our patients better. We have the solution here. Let's partner with you on how to do this. I think nurses have to have that understanding that we really have the obligation to do that. We're one of the largest professions. Prior to the pandemic, I think we were at 6 million, about 6 million. Now we're down to about four and a half million nurses in the United States. But that is still a very formidable number. And even if you had a small percentage of the 4.6 million talking about one piece of healthcare legislation or one healthcare issue to their representatives and senators all over the country, it's gonna resonate and say, why are 4 million nurses and not even 4 million, why are 1 million nurses talking about this law and how it's going to affect how they care for patients? Let's pay attention to what's happening here. So a lot of what nurses say, me included, especially the early part of my journey, is why didn't they ask us? They never asked nurses for anything. And then post-pandemic, realizing they're never going to ask us. We have to be at that table, we have to go to them. And that's just the reality of things. That's just how the world works. Once we're in those spaces where nurses are part of the larger decision-making process, then we can go and ask our fellow nurses and our colleagues, because we're already in that space and though we know what the needs are, but it's a long journey, and it's all about getting more nursing voices in the spaces where these big decisions and laws are made of.

[33:54] Michelle: Yeah, I've heard you say that on your YouTube about nurses complaining that they are not involved in the decisions that affect them, and you say that's not going to happen and we need to just stop waiting for that and we need to tell them what we want and don't wait to be asked. I think that's such a great message, and I think that's also the basis of grassroots movements. Right? It's like, no, we're not going to just be silent anymore. We're going to make change with our voices, with our votes. And there's a couple of great grassroots movements for nursing that are really taking hold, and one of them is Nursing is STEM and also the Commission for Nurse Reimbursement. So those are examples of nurses getting involved in policy-making and social change. And I guess, how can the bedside nurse just make small changes to be active in some of those movements?

[35:06] Gilanie: I think social media and being involved in nursing organizations is a great entry point into getting involved in these movements, because there is a community out there, not a very large community, but there is a community of nurses out there that want to make these social changes or, you know, are doing things at the grassroots level to make change. Sometimes it's just going back to basics in terms of connecting with your friends and talking about issues that are important to you. I do want to give an example of how I got involved in a, I would say grassroots movement, but also partnering with the National Nursing Organization in California. I have a lot of oncology colleagues who are part of chapters of the Oncology Nursing Society. And, you know, we all communicate in different ways, or we see certain issues coming to light. And in some of these chapters, they have legislative liaison chair. And so in my chapter, I was the legislative liaison for the greater Los Angeles chapter of Oncology Nursing. And part of my role was to see what legislation was out there that was being followed for our patients. And also just thinking, okay, what can I do for my organization or my colleagues to make it more tangible for them? And I had a dream of copying what the national organization did in Washington, DC. They had an annual Hill day, a Capitol Hill day, and it was a wonderful experience. I went to one in 2021 or 2022. I forget the year, but I went to one. And it was just a life-changing experience, because being a nurse on Capitol Hill, walking through the halls of your congressman's office, it just is almost like a full circle moment. Like, wow, these are where these laws that are carried out, you know, at my healthcare organizations have been made and debated and, you know, decided upon. So I wanted to bring that experience to, like, originally just my chapter. But in talking with other nurses who were passionate about making improvements for our oncology patients, I thought, okay, I think we have something here. Let's see if we can duplicate what we did at the national level, at the state level. And it was in 2023, just last year, we had state-level capitol day. We don't have a Capitol Hill here in California, but we do have our capitol. And it was just so wonderful to see these community of nurses who were passionate about making things better for our patients and not even knowing exactly the nitty gritty of what we were going to do. But how can we have a voice? How can we get together and do something? And we formed a California advocacy summit in conjunction with the Oncology Nursing Society. And it was just really me and my friends and their friends who got together and said, yeah, I have a room at my hospital that we can use for this seminar. And someone said, yeah, we can bring some food. And someone said, okay, we can work on the advertising for this. So that was so exciting because it was just kind of, like I said, back to basics, people offering what they could in order to achieve a common goal. And within three and a half months, we were able to put on this event that had 70 nurses at Sutter Health up in Sacramento. And we just used a space in Sutter Health, and we got wonderful speakers to talk about advocacy, to talk about civics and how it pertained to nursing, talk about how a bill becomes a law. And then the second day, because it was a two-day event, we all got together and walked up to the Capitol building in Sacramento and met with our lawmakers and told them about laws that are, and talked to them about bills that we wanted to see if they could support so they can be laws to help with our patients. So that was a wonderful grassroots roots effort because we really didn't have anything other than we had the support and some guidance from our national organization. But we were able to get twelve chapters from up and down California, as far south as San Diego, as far north as Napa Valley. Nurses that had not met each other before, but were joined together by the profession, by our specialty, and our common goal of wanting cancer care improved in California. So we had our second annual California advocacy summit this year, and we're planning on our third one next year. And the movement just keeps growing. More nurses are becoming a, interested in how a bill becomes a law, understanding how that process is, and even wanting to write laws. Like after the first California Advocacy summit, you know, nurses that had no interest in politics or no interest in, you know, this process were like, how can we write a law? Or how can we write a bill that becomes a law so that we can get our patients the medication they need or so that we're not putting our cancer patients in bankruptcy because it's just so expensive to get cancer treatment these days? And who better knows these issues than nurses, right? Because we are at the bedside, we hear these stories from our patients, so we know what issues are out there. And knowing what these challenges are, I think they really lend themselves to a grassroots movement because that's where the passion comes from. That's where, you know, you put your differences aside or put these challenges that seem insurmountable into perspective because we're trying to reach a mission and, you know, we're all going to do it together and we're going to get there. So I think that's really what's going to change healthcare. Not algorithms, not, you know, big, big conferences and things like that. It's really nurses having a common goal, seeing where they're, where their resources are, and changing the system, you know, one piece at a time. And again, my goal is to empower nurses and give nurses the tools so that they can navigate this system. Someone was challenging me in terms of, you know, nurses are never going to, as a profession, we're never going to agree on one thing. And I understand that perspective by, I think, going into this profession, I really believe we all can agree on quality healthcare because otherwise, why are you a nurse if you're not wanting to have quality healthcare for your patient? And just having the thought of providing that really lends itself to what we can do to make our profession better so that we are more, so that we are stronger and bonded so that when we do have a voice out there, people will listen to us. So, yeah, I think grassroots advocacy is really where it's at. And ultimately that's going to be the key to changing the problems that we're having in the healthcare system.

[42:46] Michelle: Yeah, I mean, that's just a fantastic example of what nurses do best. Right? We see something that we don't like and we say, we're going to change this and we network, we get together and we do it. And these are the small things that start out small, but then they gain traction through showing people through social media, through communication, through networking that we do have a voice and we can get things done going up to Sacramento. That's a perfect example. And I saw your reels from that and it looked like so much fun. You know, it was fun.

[43:35] Gilanie: You know, it was fun. I honestly think, I don't think of it as work. All of the things I'm doing in advocacy, it's fun to me. This is really fun to me. Part of it, I think it's a creative outlet, but because it's fun for me, I'm hoping I make it fun for other people and that will engage them. And I really try to make it so it's accessible, something that nurses can do. As you said, I was thinking about what you said earlier about nurses getting together and networking and coming together to get something done. I mean, I've worked in the hospital environment. I think you have, too, right? In your nickname background. And I think nurses throw some of the most awesome potlucks ever, right? You write something down, all of a sudden everybody's like, oh, I can bring this, I can bring that. We can pull it together quickly. The same thing with advocacy and legislation. Like, okay, how can we make this better? And then if we're in the right space and people feel empowered and they have the right tools, then, you know, it's just people saying, oh, yeah, I can do this, or I know this person, let's talk to this person. Let's see how we can get the introduction to this congressman or things like that. Because nurses are very well connected, I think, in our professional life, but also in our personal life, people trust us. We're the most trusted profession. So again, that even gives us that edge when we're talking to our lawmakers, is that, you know, you're already going into their office as a nurse. They are going to trust you at some level, right? Because, you know, they either their life has been touched by a nurse or someone in their family. I don't think there's very few people in this country where their lives haven't been touched by a nurse or a doctor or someone in healthcare. And I speak to a lot of my friends about this, but using the nursing skills we have in the advocacy space is really a very easy thing, like the rapport building, the critical thinking, just making compassionate decisions. We do that every day at work, and those are the skills that are needed when we're working with health policy, when we're looking at legislation. And I think really that's what is greatly missing is the compassion that nurses can bring into the health policy process. Because we've been there at the very lowest points of someone's life and supported them through whatever healthcare challenge they're going through and having that feeling of, okay, I have to advocate for this patient to the doctor, to the social work, to everyone, right, just to get your patient what they need. And it's just really a matter of bringing that into the advocacy health policy space we already have the skills. It's just putting it in a different location.

[46:39] Michelle: That's so true. And I would encourage nurses at the unit level to, you know, if you're not ready to jump into a professional organization or an advocacy group, to get into your unit-based council, get involved with your shared governance committees, these are the starting points where changes are made, where advocates are born. And, yeah, it's just so important. So, Jelani, we've all had mentors throughout our life and our nursing career. Who are some of your activist mentors?

[47:18] Gilanie: Some of my activist mentors. I alluded to this in one of the YouTube videos that I made. And in high school, I was in high school in the nineties. And I think at that time, there was a lot of that I wasn't really aware of, but just kind of always around me a lot of social injustices and people that were out there trying to make a difference, like Greenpeace. I mean, I think, you know, it was just something I always saw. And plus, even in the music I listened to, it was, you know, the alternative music at that time. Right? Usually, people are advocating for social justice change. So Gandhi, like Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa, you know, these big figures, but on a global level. But knowing how they made change was so powerful because they were doing it in something simple. It wasn't like they had the technology, especially at the time. There was really no technology, right, to get the word out there, but just being very strong in their mission and their belief and thinking about the populations or the people that they were making sacrifices for in order to make the world better for them. So I think that had a lot to do with just the social justice part of things. And knowing that one person can really make a difference. That made me. That really gave me the beginnings of the passion of going through this advocacy journey and my mission of not wanting nurses to have to experience what we went through as a profession during the pandemic ever again. And it seems like a very ambitious mission. But I think with these activists that I think about Mother Teresa or Gandhi or even Nelson Mandela, I mean, they had ambitious missions and they were able to achieve it. And it was because they knew that they had to do the right thing, and they had to speak out about injustice, or they had to speak out against injustice and be the voice for people that didn't have a voice. And that's what really carries me through this, is that there's so many patients out there, so many nurses out there that don't have a voice, and it would almost be a disservice to them if me or the people that had knowledge on how to influence health policy didn't share our knowledge with other people and get this movement going. So just that in my past. But also people who are making changes today in the environmental space, you know, where they want to combat global warming and just making a better world for our children and our future generations. There's so many people out there that are doing this, and people may not know their names, but they know the work that they do. So just being aware that it can be just one person that starts to make the change gives me confidence that, you know, hopefully I can make a dent in making healthcare a little better.

[50:34] Michelle: I think you've made it exceptionally better. And those mentors are so important. And the people that you mentioned, you're absolutely right. They didn't have social media to be able to get their message out. Right. They just did it one person at a time. And they made monumental changes that we still talk about today. Right? Yeah. And so that's how you do it. One person at a time. And nurses are in the people business, and we know a lot of people. We know how to network. We know how to raise our voices to be heard, and we're doing that one person at a time. I love it. I love your message, and I just wish you all the best in all your endeavors. And you're going to go far. You're going to take your message far.

[51:31] Gilanie: Thank you, Michelle. And my goal is to bring as many people as I can with me to spread this message because I think it's much needed. And we really have a small window of time, I feel, to make an impact right now because people are leaving the nursing profession, right? Because they're disillusioned for many reasons. They're disillusioned. They want to do something else. But we have the numbers right now and we have the influence. So let's channel what we have for good and make changes in our healthcare system.

[52:08] Michelle: Yes, let's channel it. We can do it. Okay. Is there someone that you recommend as a guest on this podcast, Gilanie?

[52:16] Gilanie: I do, actually. Well, there are two nurses I would like to recommend. One is Milagros Elia. She is from New York, and she's an oncology nurse as well. And she's just done so much in the last couple of years. But I met her through social media as well. She posts on environmental health within the oncology specialty because she wants to bring attention to how much waste hospitals, especially with chemotherapy and all that, the waste that we're creating and how we can improve the process so we're not having such a detrimental effect on the environment. So she's a wonderful person to speak to, and I think just recently she's been involved in international organizations. And it's good because, you know, you have a nurse talking about these things. And then Alicia, who I have on my YouTube channel, too, she's a nursing educator, but she's also involved in a lot of different projects where she can reduce healthcare disparities in, like, poorer areas. Like, so the community she comes from, I don't know if you're familiar with, like, the San Bernardino Inland Empire area, where they don't really have many resources. So she was even saying, like, nurses out there, they don't even think about joining a nursing organization because it's, you know, they can't move beyond what, like, the poverty levels in their communities. Right. You're just putting food on the table. You have a lot of patients. So she wants to find a way to bring awareness of nursing organizations or having more support for them out to those types of areas. So I think she's a great person to get on the podcast, and I can introduce you. I'd be more happy to introduce you to them. Absolutely. And also, if you would like to find a nurse in a certain specialty or doing some sort of work, I'd be happy to see if I have anyone to recommend to you.

[54:12] Michelle: Oh, awesome. Yes. I saw a few episodes on your YouTube with Alicia, and I was very impressed. So she sounds great, as well as your other guest recommendations. Yes. That's awesome. Thank you for that. Where can we find you?

[54:30] Gilanie: Oh, well, on my social media platforms, you can find me on Instagram, you can find me on TikTok and on YouTube. I am going to be on Spotify soon trying to do a video podcast, just trying to see what's out there, but I plan to do that soon and again just to spread my message out there.

[54:53] Michelle: Well, you have a great message, and it needs to be heard. And I'm really happy that we talked today and that you're getting your message out there. It's so valuable, and you brought a lot of value to our audience today. So I appreciate that, Gilanie.

[55:10] Gilanie: Thank you, Michelle. It was wonderful speaking to you, and you're such a wonderful host and so easy to speak to you.

[55:17] Michelle: Thank you, Gilanie. I appreciate that. Well, we're at the end, so we're ready for the five-minute snippet.

[55:24] Gilanie: Okay. All right.

[55:25] Michelle: Five minutes of fun, Jelani. Don't get scared. So there's an organization called the Moth. It's about storytelling, and they encourage storytelling. And I know nurses have a lot of stories, so we're going to do a little bit of that today. So we will just start and tell us about a time when you felt like a kid again.

[56:29] Gilanie: A time that I felt like a kid again. I have a nine-year-old niece, and it's summer vacation for her right now, and she loves to draw. So I sat down at the table with her and was just watching her draw and just asking her, you know, how she got ideas for her drawings. And she was telling me, you know, what her inspiration was and what her thoughts were and what she planned to draw. It just really made me excited, just kind of reliving and seeing in her eyes the creativity children have. And so just conversing with her and joking around with her and really being in the moment with her, it really made me feel like a kid again, you know, talking to my friend and like, just, you know, things that adults might think, oh, that's not possible. You know, to children, everything is possible. Right. So it just. It's just a very refreshing time. Every time I talk to my niece I think that makes me feel like a kid again.

[57:26] Michelle: I love that story. Yeah. You know that those are some of the best ways to find our inner kid again. Right? Sitting with kids, and for me, it's my grandkids and just hearing all of their amazing dreams that they have and doing art together, and it's wonderful.

[57:48] Gilanie: Yeah.

[57:49] Michelle: Okay, tell us about a time when a weakness became a strength.

[57:56] Gilanie: I had to have a very difficult conversation with someone, and I, despite the work I do and the advocacy work I do, I'm just very much a nonconfrontational person. So it was a very difficult conversation I had because it was something that I wanted the person to know. But then I also knew they were a strong personality. And if I didn't frame my message right then it could have turned into something else. Because I always try to see something from someone's perspective and try to be compassionate. I found the courage to say what I needed to say to this person, but because my weakness was, like, not being confrontational, I actually posed what I was going to say as a question versus a statement, and because I really didn't know how else to say it. And I think asking it in the question out of just being curious about something versus being accusing, really helped to have a really open conversation versus putting the person up in a defensive position, and. And it could have led to something else. So I think just my weakness of not being confrontational and just putting myself in the person's shoes and seeing how they would want to be talked to or asked about this issue, I think that helped me because it was something that I was putting off and putting off, but it turned out to be good in the end.

[59:32] Michelle: That's amazing. Yeah. And that just takes, you know, maturity and experience to be able to do that, to turn that around where it ended up being a good interaction.

[59:45] Gilanie: Yes. Yeah.

[59:47] Michelle: Okay, tell us about a time when experience was the best teacher.

[59:53] Gilanie: A time when experience was the best teacher. Well, I'm a very clumsy person. Just, you know, just for years and years as I'm just a clumsy person. I have all these stories of, you know, like, dropping things or, you know, just being all over the place and not prepared or, you know, working against myself. And so through all those experiences, I become much more organized and just have, like, a backup to a backup to a backup. And so when, for example, just, you know, packing for work or packing to travel, I've learned how to, you know, have, for example, like, a backup of my phone, like a power bank, extra earbuds, extra paper pen, all of that, just because through experience and learning the hard way, you don't want to be in that situation again. And then I also see, like, for example, if I have my sister or someone that is in the same situation, I can tell them, well, from experience, this is what I do. And so, you know, sharing what I've learned with them, that's the best teacher sometimes, right? Yes.

[01:01:03] Michelle: Love it. Okay, last one. Tell us about a time when you had a new lease on life.

[01:01:12] Gilanie: I really think it's embarking on this advocacy journey. I think I was at a point in my profession as a nurse where I really questioned myself, like, can I keep doing this? I see a lot of people leaving the profession. I was, admittedly, I was burnt out like a lot of my colleagues. And I didn't know how I could authentically keep doing what I was doing. But knowing how I could make a difference for the profession and for patients in a different way, that really gave me a new lease on life, like changing my worldview. Looking inward but looking outward to see how my skills as a nurse, my knowledge and all that can, can help the profession from a different perspective. So that's really given me the second wind in my career. And I'm hoping also it inspires other people that they can make a difference elsewhere in the profession where they think all roads have closed to them already. And then just seeing nurses understand how they can make a difference in the health policy space is so inspirational for me. And, you know, that keeps me going as well. So, yeah, just, I would say within the last four and a half, five years, it's really reinvigorated my professional journey, but also my outlook on life.

[01:02:34] Michelle: Well, you're inspiring to us. And, you know, I. I love seeing all your social media. I love learning from you. I have to say that sometimes I'm a little bit embarrassed when I see some of your posts about, did you know this or did you know this is how this is done? And I'm like, oh, my God, no. I need to really bring myself up to date on all of this stuff. And so you've inspired me to look further, and I think that self-reflection is so, so important. And I don't know if it's just because I turned 60 this year, but I did a post a few weeks ago about I'm in my reflection era.

[01:03:19] Gilanie: Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. 

[01:03:22] Michelle: Yeah, I'm just, like, reflecting on where I've been and where I am and where I want to go. So I think that reflection is so important and your message is so important, your advocacy is so important, what you're doing for the profession and for nurses and for patients so that we can be better and provide for our patients what we need, but also while providing for ourselves. So thank you for everything you're doing, Gilanie.

[01:03:51] Gilanie: And thank you, too, Michelle, just for highlighting nurses and the profession. And I think it's wonderful because nurses don't, are usually not at the forefront. Right. We're advocating for patients, for other things, and it's almost counterintuitive that we're in the spotlight, but nobody is going to toot our horns. We have to do it for ourselves. Right?

[01:04:12] Michelle: Yes. So important. Toot your horn. Don't be afraid. Have a great rest of your day.

[01:04:22] Gilanie: You, too, have a great day. Thank you, Michelle.