Locum Tenen Family Nurse Practitioner, Ebony Thyme

[00:00] Michelle: Ebony Thyme does not let grass grow under her feet. Whether traveling for her job as a locum tenon family nurse practitioner or for leisure as a travel host, adventure is her game. As a teenager, Ebony was happily working at a Wendy's drive thru, but her father urged her to aim higher. Perhaps it was her youthful spirit that made her laugh in the face of challenges, or maybe it was her strong determination to see things through once she started them. But she took his advice to heart and became a nurse. As a locum tenen family nurse practitioner, Ebony plays a crucial role, providing extra support to her colleagues at busy, urgent care clinics across the country. And Ebony is a visionary. During the pandemic, she anticipated changes in patient care and an increased need for advanced practice nurses. She now proudly works as a 1099 contractor, enjoying freedom and flexibility in her job without the heavy tax burden. And she doesn't keep this secret to herself. Ebony has developed The Locum Tenen Guide, a comprehensive program that has already helped over 450 healthcare professionals transition into independent contracting and establish valuable business-to-business relationships within the healthcare industry. Her unique journey has been featured in the Business Insider, Forbes magazine, the Washington Post, Good Morning America and many more. And today she is sharing her experiences with you. In the five minute snippet: It's the highlight of her Highlights. Well, good morning, Ebony. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:11] Ebony: Thank you for having me. How are you?

[02:14] Michelle: I'm good. It's not as hot here this week, which is wonderful. Last week I had an interview and it was at 09:00 in the morning here, which it was already almost 100 degrees. I think it got to 112 that day. So today it's only supposed to be 104.

[02:36] Ebony: Oh, that still seems very hot.

[02:40] Michelle: It's still very hot, but at least it's cool right now. So. Yeah. Where are you joining us from today?

[02:49] Ebony: I'm joining from New York. New York City.

[02:53] Michelle: Well, you guys have had some heat waves, too.

[02:55] Ebony: Yes, it's been hot, like the entire week. Today it's okay, but it's usually in the afternoon and it gets a little bit more hot.

[03:03] Michelle: Yeah, I feel for you guys. You know, we always say out here it's  a dry heat, so if we had to battle the humidity, we would not be doing as well as we do. Yeah. Well, I'm excited for you to be here today. Your friend Irnise Williams suggested you as a guest on this podcast, and Irnise was amazing as a nurse lawyer. She provided so much information and, and insight into what she does as a nurse lawyer. So you come very highly recommended and you're doing a lot, Ebony.

[03:46] Ebony: Oh, yes, I am.

[03:48] Michelle: You are busy. Yeah. So we'll talk about all that, but let's start first because you're a travel nurse practitioner, and of course I'm familiar with travel nurses and we had neonatal nurse practitioners in our NICU, and I just have never worked with a travel nurse practitioner, and I don't know why I didn't think that was possible. We have locum tenens, neonatologists, other specialties. But talk about your path to becoming a nurse practitioner.

[04:23] Ebony: Yeah, sure. So I started nursing school. Well, I started nurse, my nurse practitioner school in 2016, but prior to that, I didn't even know I was going to be a nurse. I did not know I was going to be a nurse at all. I actually was working in Wendy's and I was fine working in a drive through in Wendy's, making my own schedule, but something my father was just like, you need to do more. And so I went into nursing school, and I'm the type of person, I don't know if there's anybody else that's on here that's like me, but like, I am the type of person that if I start something, I got to finish it right through. So without knowledge about being a nurse practitioner, I just knew that there was ability to advance my degree. So I did, and I learned about the entire nursing career while in school. I didn't have friends that did nursing before. I didn't take any pre-nursing in high school or anything like that. So it was just like, okay, advance the degree. That was the next step. So I just continued school. I started school, like when I was 17, I'm 31 now. I finished at 25, so I started really early. I got my NP at 25 years old, so I chose family medicine as my background, because for a person like me, who, I guess it kind of makes sense now, but for a person like me that didn't have a specific specialty that she was certain about, it made sense for me to do family so that I can dip and, you know, dabble into any, like, specific specialty as long as I have that family medicine background, to a certain extent, of course. So that's what got me into being a family nurse practitioner. I've been practicing now for the past five years. Out of that five years, I've only been a staff nurse practitioner for four months.

[06:15] Michelle: That's an amazing story, Ebony. A lot of nurses that I talk to, they have a family of nurses or they have friends that are nurses that somehow motivated them. And it's just wild to think that you went into this with not knowing any nurses, not ever having nursing on your radar. That's amazing. And it's, you know, like you said, part of your personality is that I, when you start something, you like to see it all the way through. And that's a trait that I'm sure you would have in life, no matter if you're a nurse practitioner or a drive through, you know, a Wendy's drive through clerk or whatever. But that's such a cool story, and that's so motivating. I love it. Wow.

[07:08] Ebony: Thank you so much. Yes, that's my journey.

[07:13] Michelle: That's amazing.

[07:14] Ebony: Thank you.

[07:15] Michelle: Well, let's get into some of the nuts and bolts of what you do. So I was thinking, you know, being a nurse practitioner is challenging for sure, but you're adding to that by traveling. So you're working in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. So talk about some of those challenges and how you approach them.

[07:38] Ebony: Yeah. So first and foremost, not a lot of people know that you can travel as a nurse practitioner. Right. And it's locum pretty much. And, you know, you can do it as a doctor, a CRNA, a PA as well, midwives as well. So I think for me, it came a little bit easier to go into different settings because I came from a travel nursing background. So I'm already programmed. So, okay, two days of orientation and then go on and do what you got to do. So. But of course, whether I was a travel nurse or currently a nurse practitioner doing the same thing, there's always that challenge that comes with where things are, like the demographics of patients. So I think that for me, predominantly I work in urgent care clinics. I'm currently in a pediatric urgent care, urgent cares that I normally am used to. We may have like, in a day, a twelve hour period. Cause I work 3-12s usually, but in a twelve hour period, we may have like two children. That's it. Two Peds. But that's what I'm normally used to. The clinic that I work in right now, it's all Peds. So just that learning curve. I tell people this all the time, like, yes, I have a little bit of background in Peds, but this is an all-Peds clinic. So that learning curve with just that dynamic of patients was something that I had to learn and I had to be comfortable, like knowing when I need to have a provider with me so that I can be through that learning process. So majority of the time for the past five years, I've been working as a solo provider in urgent care. This is the second time I'm working with a provider in the setting. And I really was like, listen, I will doPeds. I've had Peds. I don't think it's much different than urgent care regular, but I would feel more comfortable with having another provider there that's a Peds provider that if I had to run information by or, hey, can you take a look at this rash and so on? They can. They can help. So the challenges really come with the demographics of patients. And those demographics of patients depend on the area you're located as well. So I, I've trained people to do suturing. I've been like one of the people that, you know, educators to be able to do suturing and train other providers to do suturing. But on certain assignments, I won't get that at all. And that depends on the location. Other assignments, I would get stuff like deer ticks, especially for, you know, the population that likes to hunt. So I'll get a lot of, like, ticks, ticks, ticks, ticks, ticks that I might not get in New York City because that's not common. So I think the challenges is like when accepting assignment, just knowing that demographic of patients that come in and how to treat those patients. Yeah.

[10:33] Michelle: Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of bringing yourself up to speed, like, so fast. Right. So what is the typical process for getting an assignment? You get an assignment, are you reaching out to the place that you're going to be going to, or do they, are you working with an agency and they tell you, hey, we have this contract at this place for this long. How does that work?

[11:01] Ebony: Yes. So exactly the last statement you stated. So normally you reach out to a database. The database I like to use really is locumtenens.com is similar to indeed where, like, a lot of agencies put their needs on that website. And then when they do that, you fill out the profile and then you can be able to connect with the recruiters of that agency. So recruiters will connect you and be like, hey, they looked, you already uploaded your licenses and stuff like that. So they'll be like, hey, we actually have a need. And I'm licensed in DC, Cali, and New York right now. If it was a compact state, I would have way more licenses. The licenses are expensive sometimes. So they would be like, hey, we see that you're licensed here. We have a need here. You wouldn't know too. You wouldn't even know the, the hospital or clinic, because then you could work with them directly and cut out the middleman so they don't tell you that part. I have some good recruiters that would tell me that as well. But most agencies, they don't tell you the clinic. They tell you where it's located and things like that. And if it works for you. And so once you give the okay to be submitted over, they pretty much become the representative of you. So they are like, the person that your spokesperson. Like, this is this person. This is her resume. They'll submit, like, a cover letter from their side. Basically, you don't really have to write one as a provider, but if you want to submit it with your application, you want to write it, great. But they present you, and your recruiter will know to present you very well if you have a great relationship with your recruiter. And then once they do that, they're like, okay, we like her profile. We like her resume. We want to see if she's a good fit for the facility. The difference, I would say, between any staff position and contracting work is you are also me as a provider. I'm also seeing if I'm good for that, like, if I feel comfortable in that facility. So they need me just as much as I need them. Right. So it's that relationship. Like, they are kind of pitching themselves to me and I'm pitching myself to them. And if it's a good fit, it works. This is how long the contract is going to be for most of the time. Like, I mean, I work 3-12. It might be a little bit different from a primary care provider that works Monday to Friday, but I can make my own schedule. I typically choose those assignments where I might work with different agencies, all per diem, and make it a full time schedule, too. Or I might work with one agency and make it a three month assignment and keep renewing that. So that's how I tend to do my assignments. But some people, they like, you know, just to be at one assignment for a long time, like, you'd be on an assignment for, like, five plus years and be with that company, you know, and other people, they like to hop around and do different things. I'm the other people. So.

[14:03] Michelle: You're much more outgoing and, you know, adventurous, right?

[14:09] Ebony: Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[14:12] Michelle: Wow, that's really a cool process. Have you ever gotten into a place where, you know, you accepted a contract and, and you're there for a few weeks, and for whatever reason, it just doesn't feel right or it's not working out. What are your options going forward?

[14:32] Ebony: So one of the things I have, I had a contract like that before, and I only stayed there for six weeks. Even that six weeks was pretty tough. But, um, one of the things I've always made sure I have is a termination clause in my contract. So I, this is basically saying that in the event that I choose not to extend, like, if my contract is set out for three months and I choose to not fulfill that contract, I would at least give them 30 day notice or 30 days of my time before I quit the contract. And so that happened with this, one of the contracts that I worked at. That's one of the things that, and obviously, if there's, like, emergencies, you can always say that as well, that you have an emergency. That's why you have to cancel the contract. It doesn't leave a good relationship with the actual clinic, but the agency wouldn't do anything. It doesn't affect the agency. They'll still place you other places. You probably won't be placed back in that specific clinic. That's for people that, like, have to abruptly leave or just like, don't follow the terms in the contract. That's why termination clause are really good, because you just have to fulfill 30 working days until your contract is. Until you can, like, basically void that contract. I have great relationships with all of the companies that I worked for. When it's a smaller company, I, if I have a medical emergency, I'm more like you, you know, I have to go for larger companies, especially like places like Northwell or Kaiser or things like that. I don't want to, like, lose that complete relationship with them. Cause they're a big organization. I would do a 30 day clause with them.

[16:15] Michelle: Okay. I like how that works.

[16:19] Ebony: Yeah. Okay.

[16:19] Michelle: So how do you prepare for each place that you work for? Is there some kind of review process that you go through? Do you look at their state laws? As far as scope of practice? How does that work?

[16:35] Ebony: So the good thing about locums is that they have the agency not only place you, but they have all the rules and regulations as well as if they have to. We don't have to pay for a collaboration physician because it comes with the agency. If I come into their clinic. So that's one of the things that's like a perk, is that they keep up with those regulations. So you already kind of know as far as, like, other preparations, it's not too many. It's not too much like legality preparations. Besides making sure that everything that you need outlined in your contract is outlined in your contract. The great thing about locums is that they all also, most agencies, when you are doing travel assignments, they cover housing and lodging as well. So that makes things a lot better, too. But other than that, there's no huge preparation. When they tell me the area that I'm working in, I like to look up the area to see what's around. I'm not a rural person. I'm very urban. So it's like, okay, if the first thing I'm looking up is, where's the first Walmart? Where's the Walmart? Where's the supermarket? Yeah. So that's the first thing I'm looking up and then I'm looking at the area. I do this with my regular travels as well, like any hotel that I stay in or anything. So I kind of implement the same strategies in my work life with my travel as well.

[17:54] Michelle: Wow. Yeah, I love that. And you mentioned housing, and have you ever been in a place that, you know, maybe the housing that they offered you seemed like sketchy or dangerous? Have you ever been in a situation like that and what did you do?

[18:11] Ebony: That's a good question. I have not. And the reason I have not been in a situation like that is because the housing that I choose is suite hotels. In Hilton's and Marriott everybody is different. I would tell you, like, the reason why I do hotels as opposed to like, and I do extended stays as opposed to like, Airbnbs, because that is an option. Like short term rental is an option is because I always look at what can I get from the assignment. And the reason I'm able to travel a lot for free is because when I take those long term assignments that I don't pay for my membership from Hilton, and Marriott is on that, on the hotel, you know what I'm saying? It's on the hotel. So all of those membership points go back to me and I use that on my leisure to travel. So that's just for a person that's like, ideally a traveler like me, that's the best way to go without having to pay for any hotels and to increase your status when it comes to hotels and stuff like that. Short term rentals, they give you options, believe it or not, they give you options like where you can choose what you want to go with, and they have no problem switching out your housing if you do not like that, you know, that place or if there's something wrong with it. But usually they have the locums that have stayed there before, so they really would be like, hey, we other locums liked it. And it's usually like that. Usually modern, too.

[19:37] Michelle: They come highly recommended by others. And I really like that you're staying in hotels because first of all, just the security and the. I guess the. You know what you're gonna get. I talked to a travel nurse, Brenna Frigulti, last year, and she was at a place in Los Angeles, and they were having, like, a little heat wave, and it was an Airbnb. And the owner of the Airbnb had actually, like, disabled the thermostat so that she could not use the Air conditioner.

[20:16] Ebony: Oh, no.

[20:17] Michelle: Yeah. So she's not staying at Airbnbs anymore for that reason. That's crazy, right?

[20:24] Ebony: Hotels, you know? So I'd rather just stay in it and, like, there's perks that come with it. Like, I always make sure my suite has a full kitchen, dishwasher, laundry, you know, washer, dryer. And you get housekeeping, like, yes, the best. I bring my dog with me when I travel too, so it's like they're pet friendly. I'd rather just deal with that than deal with the Airbnb, you know?

[20:46] Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's the consistency, I guess that's the word I was looking for earlier. You. You know, you don't know all. All the time what you're getting with an Airbnb, but with the hotel, you know what you're getting. So that's cool.

[21:01] Ebony: Can't go wrong.

[21:02] Michelle: Well, yeah. How have you been received by the places that you've worked at and the staff?

[21:08] Ebony: Yeah, it's been great, I would say. And I can compare this to being a travel nurse too. Traveling as a travel NP, to me is a lot better because you guys have that mutual relationship where it's like they need you and you don't really need them, but you want to work with them, you know what I mean? They're very much more appreciative of you coming in to take off the workload. Right. So when I was a travel nurse, like, it was cool and all, but, like, I hated getting, like, the patients that the other provide, the other nurses didn't want. Right. Or like, the one that's rude and that's is none of that when it comes to being, at least in my specialty, because it's like, whoo, you're here to take the workload off of me. Instead of me seeing 40 patients, I'm now seeing 20. I'm appreciative of you as long as you know what you're doing.

[22:08] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what could be better than another competent individual coming in to lighten the load of the other competent individual? Right. And you could work independently, and. Yeah, that would be awesome. We, you know, the last few years in the NICU that I worked, we had consistent travelers, and I don't know if it was just our institution, but we absolutely loved, valued, respected, cherished our travelers. They became lifelong friends. Some of them extended their contracts to up to two years. One was a little bit over two years, and we. We received them just how you explained, like, we were so appreciative that they were there to take some of the strain off. We did not give them the hardest patients. In fact, I think most of the time, we gave them the lightest load because we were just so happy that they were there, kind of sharing the pain. And, you know, I know that that is not the case everywhere, and I was wondering, as a nurse practitioner practitioner, if that was the case with you and, you know, you just confirmed that, so that's great.

[23:37] Ebony: I'm sure it's specialty dependent, though, because I'm thinking if I was a hospitalist, that'll be a little bit different, because then the doctors might be like, and this is no judgment to some of the doctors, but I had a friend that had this story where the doctor was just like, okay, here's all my patients. Like, that is different, and urgent care is definitely not like that. We split the assignment, so it makes it easier for both of us.

[24:02] Michelle: Yeah. Interesting that you mentioned that about the physicians, because, again, we had lots of locum neonatologists, and in that group, it was funny to see the dynamic because, like, the locums coming in, like, they would give them, like, all the night shifts, and it seemed like they were giving them just all the worst assignments, and we had a lot of locums. And for a while, like, the nurse. Nurse groups were, you know, we were saying, man, is there something going on? You guys have such a high turnover. Maybe you should start treating them better.

[24:43] Ebony: Mm hmm.

[24:46] Michelle: Yeah.

[24:47] Ebony: That's why I know it's a clear difference between, like, inpatient and outpatient.

[24:51] Michelle: So true. Yeah. Well, how do you stay current in your practice, and are you a member of any nursing organizations?

[25:00] Ebony: I'm not a member of any nursing organizations as far as stay current in practice. As far as what? Like, continuing education?

[25:10] Michelle: In your practice. As a nurse practitioner, like, how do you stay up to date on things? Do you know, do you read literature? Do you go to conferences? Stuff like that?

[25:21] Ebony: Okay, cool. Yeah. So as far as, like, keeping up to date with everything? Well, I go in conferences. Cause those, I'd rather go on like, conferences that you can travel and be there and get CME credits from it, but we still have to keep up with our CME's, definitely. So the continuing education does matter, depending on the facility. This is not every facility, but depending on the facility, they kind of treat you like their staff as well. So you would have to attend, like, one of the contracts I worked at, we had to, regardless what, it was, operated mainly by locums, but we had to attend the staff meetings. And we are still in on any of the continuing education stuff or any of the education regarding, like, patient care. We still had to be a part of that. We get treated as, like the staff and the staff nurse practitioners, except that we don't have to commit to anything like PTO or anything like that. So we definitely have to keep up with that. With that in that sense, and for our licenses purposes as well, when it's time to renew our licenses, we have to have those educational points as well to renew our license again. 

[26:35] Michelle: Yeah, for sure. Well, speaking of education, you provide a lot of education through your website, through your instagram, and talk about some of the educational opportunities that are available from you for travel. Nurse practitioners or nurses that possibly want to go down this line.

[27:00] Ebony: Yeah. So I do a lot of education. Now that I think about it, one of the biggest things that, that had happened to me when I first started is what I want all nurse practitioners to avoid if they decide to take this route. And it's a clear distinction between being a 1099 contractor and a w two employee that I feel like, and this happened to me so I can speak on it. And I have a lot of mentees as well, that it has happened to them. And I have to go and be like, okay, let's start from square one. We get the job opportunity, we get paid more, but don't know the legalities that come behind being a contracted worker. So of course, the IR's is one of the things that you have to be concerned of, right, when you become a contractor. And I feel like because nursing school does not teach us these things, like how to operate as a self employed contractor or a business, it is way different than operating under an employer that I get a lot of times like, hey, I took the contracting route. I owe $25,000 back in taxes. I owe $30,000 back in taxes. And so my first year of being a locum, that happened to me. Yes, I was getting paid more. Yes, I had my freedom and flexibility as well, but I also owed $30,000 in taxes. So I know. So I try my best to, if anybody had ever inquired about wanting to do locums, at least the 1099 route, because you could do a W-2 as a locum as well. But anybody that wants to do this 1099 route, I inquire them to understand that side of things, how the IRS operates when nothing is being taken out from your check and you are responsible for those things. So I do heavy education on them a lot. I used to, like, just teach people how to become a locum, and now I realize, well, people are doing it on their own, but people are always failing at understanding the IRS standpoint of it. So I do like a lot of workshops. I used to do them weekly. Now I kind of do it monthly, so on, whenever I can because I am busy just educating, like on locums, but also understanding how the, how the taxes work when it comes to that side as well. I also have like a community of like over 150 nurse practitioners, some CRNAs and some PA's as well, who are in the community, who I have monthly meetings with and who have access to my resources in there, including like financial advisement, health insurance advisor if they need it, and how to structure their self as LLC so that they can vet out their own CPA if needed. So I have those kind of factors in there. I also have my first in person event that's coming up that's going to be really good in regards to teaching these concepts in person. So I try to provide a lot of resources because when I started, I didn't have any resources. And everything that was spoken about from locums was from the agency standpoint, which an agency is a business as well. So they're trying to recruit you by saying, we have lodging, we have transportation, we could get you freedom and flexibility, and it all sounds good until you get the job. And you're like, what do I do about my taxes? So that's the part that I really educate people on. I'm not a CPA, but I've learned to vet my third, now third CPA, who's amazing because I was able to have that understanding background that not every CPA is also knowledgeable at what they do as well. So nurses has to really, really understand at least the foundation of how their money is flowing.

[30:49] Michelle: Yeah, that's amazing. I love your website, wellnessthymehealth.com. That's where I saw your free live virtual workshop that's coming up on August 29. And then the paychecks to profit. What is that? Is that another class?

[31:10] Ebony: It's going to be my first in person event in New York City on August 23 and August 24. And in that event will be a two day summit. So day one is going to be how to leverage your license if you are a contractor. So, like, I have a lot of guest speakers who are like, hey, I was once a contractor. Now I no longer work as one anymore. I own my own telehealth practice. I own my own concierge practice. I own my own wellness clinic, private practice, IV hydration med spa. So it's cool. Cool. Because it not only applies to advanced practice nurse practitioners, but it applies to or just advanced practicing providers, MDs, CRNAs, or PA's. It also applies to anybody that, even RNs or speech pathologist, anybody that's doing 1099 work and how to leverage your contracting, your license as a contractor into something that you are passionate about. So that is on Friday. Also, there's a segment that's going to be on there about, like, transitioning into locum. So if anybody was interested in transitioning into locum, I actually have some of my mentees that's going to be conducting that segment. In addition to that on Saturday. It's all of the concepts of being a 1099 contractor where my CPA is going to be speaking on how to reduce your taxable income so that you don't owe any money. And it's been every year making. Doubling my income, making over $200,000 and paying like, less than $1,000 to nothing for taxes, which as a complete flip to what I was doing before, it'll have, like, health insurance specialists in case, like, anybody wants to do contracting work, but is concerned about, hey, what affordable plans do I have? So she'll be able to, like, tell you right there. And financial advisement, like wealth building strategies that occur outside of. Of the normal traditional healthcare setting, which is going to be pretty cool. So, yeah, it's two days worth of a lot of information, but super informative for the person that wants to get into independent contracting.

[33:14] Michelle: Yeah, that's amazing. When is this coming up, Ebony?

[33:18] Ebony: August 23 and August 24. The Friday and the Saturday.

[33:22] Michelle: Okay. And then where would they register for this?

[33:25] Ebony: They could register at www.paychecks2profit.com. It's the number two profit. 

[33:35] Michelle: Awesome. Yeah. And is this something that'll be recorded that people can access later?

[33:40] Ebony: Hopefully. Hopefully. It's my first one. I wish I could do virtually, but the budget doesn't call for it. So I want it to be something that when I came up with this idea, I wanted it to be like a staple event for me, something that's done annually. It doesn't always have to be done in New York City, but because I'm here, it's easier. Something where I can fly my team out and speak to different healthcare workers about independent contracting. So hopefully that's going to be the way it is. And it can be something that can be also be done virtually as well. But as of now, it is in person. I'm trying to see if I can do it virtual.

[34:20] Michelle: Very cool. Yeah. I would love it for all of our listeners that, you know, can't go to New York City. That would be awesome.

[34:27] Ebony: Yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much.

[34:30] Michelle: Yeah. Do you think that's the wave of the future in healthcare? Are you seeing so many more healthcare providers go the 1099 route?

[34:40] Ebony: Yes, so funny. So I started my business in 2020 during the pandemic because I knew it was going to be a shift. I knew it was going to be a shift because I told my friend, I said, when you make things more convenient for patients, because nobody can't go anywhere, but you can get a virtual visit, right. When you make things way convenient for patients, it's like, how many providers? We need more providers to accommodate this change. So I started the business knowing that it was going to be a shift in independent contractors and people starting their own practice and doing the same thing outside of insurance. I still think that insurance based practice is going to be around, of course, especially urgent care. But nowadays, like, urgent care is starting to become telehealth as well. Like, you know, like cash based practices. So I definitely think that there is a shift now where there's more convenience for patients, more convenience for providers, and more cash based practices. And I don't think it's going anywhere. I called it back in 2020 and it's just keep going, like now you could do. You know what's funny? The other day, I thought my dog had a UTI and I was gonna go to the vet, and then something told me, google, like a telehealth vet. I googled the telehealth vet. They basically did a consult with my dog. They shipped the urinalysis to my house to do the urinalysis, I had to ship it back, and they prescribed medication, and that was it. I didn't have to leave from my desk.

[36:14] Michelle: That's amazing.

[36:16] Ebony: Right? So you can turn, you can make everything remote nowadays.

[36:20] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Well, you were a visionary. You are a visionary. You saw that back then and now you're, you're, you know, you're up on it and you're taking advantage of it, and that's amazing. And I love the telehealth movement. I think that that was maybe one of the great things that came out of the pandemic was changing that because you don't always have to go in for everything. And I live in a rural community. There are people that don't have transportation, and to have to go in for everything is just not, it's not feasible and it's really not necessary. And I'm glad that providers are seeing that now.

[37:09] Ebony: Yes, I am so happy. It was, I told people this, and people were at this time, like, kind of just, I feel like clowning me. Not really, but they were like, well, I make more money. Even the nurse practitioners that went back to, like, working as a staff, I mean, granted, the COVID money was good, you know, so I'm like, hey, this is where things are going, because what goes up must come down, especially when it came to the pandemic. And I felt like a lot of nurse practitioners was like, I make more money working as a bedside nurse, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I see now everything has shift where it's like I'm burnt out and I'm tired and now I want to start my own practice or now I have all of this money. What can I do with it? So, yeah, that's all I got to say about that.

[37:58] Michelle: You know what? You're absolutely right. There's nothing wrong with bedside nursing. I did it for decades and I loved it. But what I'm seeing now is this is this huge shift after talking to so many nurses that want what you are providing, and that is the freedom and flexibility to work when you want to, how you want to, in what setting, and then have all these other perks like traveling to, to, you know, all these different places and just really getting that, that experience and for people like you that are adventurous and outgoing and professional like, it works. It works wonderfully. So I'm so glad that you are teaching other nurses how to have that, that lifestyle, because that's what it is. It's a lifestyle. You're working, but you also have this lifestyle, so that's really cool.

[39:02] Ebony: I agree. And I feel like, you know, I didn't want to quit nursing. I got, I worked too hard for my degree. I didn't want to quit nursing. I just needed it to work around me. So that was all that shift is. It makes it a lot better for me personally, my having that break. I just came back from Turkey, like, three days ago and having that break and then coming back into, you know, working this, this Tuesday, what's today? Monday, it's working tomorrow. It feels better. Like, I feel mentally better, mentally prepared to go to work and take care of patients. And that's all I wanted for myself.

[39:39] Michelle: So I just think that would make us better practitioners. Right?

[39:44] Ebony: Yeah, yeah, that balance. Exactly.

[39:48] Michelle: Yeah. And talking about coming back from Turkey. Well, first of all, let's talk about your travel Instagram, because you have an instagram just dedicated to travel, and that's @frontpage_Eb. And I was checking out all your stories, and wow, you, you really get out there. I love it. Talk about what you do, as with your travel company.

[40:17] Ebony: Yeah. So it's funny because my travel company came out before  @ebbtheNP. Nobody knew I was a nurse. So, like, how this girl's traveling so much. Like, she was just in Jordan two days ago. How is she in Egypt today? And I really, really, really enjoy seeing different parts of the world. I love culture. I just love showing people, like, I guess my whole goal with frontpage_EB was showing people things that they probably wouldn't see or wouldn't get the chance to see, right. So I try to, like, find, like, hidden gems and, you know, different things. And I really wasn't, it wasn't intended to be a content creator. It was just intended to showcase what I do and, like, beautiful places in the world. And so I started that brand. I want to say in 2017 or 18, I actually was on Snapchat, and I, like, highlighted Cuba. Back in 2016, whenever United States was able to go to Cuba, I went and I was able to highlight Cuba, how it is and how much different it is from other countries. And that got a little bit of shine from there. And then I just went to Instagram, and I started doing the same thing on Instagram. And it just, my following just grew and grew and grew and grew. And, like, people kept asking me, like, what do you do for work? And then I'm like, I'm a nurse. They're like, no, like, what are you doing for work? And so that's when the NP came in place like, okay, let me show you. When I'm not traveling, I'm doing. I'm actually, I actually do have a job. So I've been to 30. I started. My first solo trip was in Columbia. It's so funny because at this time, I was a travel nurse. I had my NP degree, but I didn't work as an NP, like, for a year, I remained as a travel nurse, and my first away assignment as a travel nurse was in California. And because Hawaii was there, like, near, not that far. I took a flight to Hawaii for my first domestic solo trip. And then after that, I was like, well, I don't know why I thought this. I was like, if I could do this domestically, I could do it internationally, and I don't regret it. My first solo trip internationally was columbia, and I don't understand. I don't understand Spanish at all. So that was a hard trip to navigate. And then from there, I just kept going and going. I didn't let it stop me. I kept going and then learning and learning different solo traveling stuff. I actually used to, like, teach people how to solo travel until I was like, I don't feel like doing that no more. But, yeah, that's how my journey. 30 plus countries so far in.

[43:07] Michelle: Yeah, yeah, I was checking that out. And for people like me that are kind of anxious travelers, it is such a joy to go to your page and watch all the. All the video, all the content from all the places that you've gone and to kind of live vicariously through you. So thank you so much for providing that. Yeah, it's fantastic. A lot of times I was saying, oh, that, that would be a cool country to go to. I loved your moroccan series.

[43:44] Ebony: Thank you.

[43:45] Michelle: So cool. And that's always been a place that's been on my radar. And just watching that, I was like, oh, maybe I could go to Morocco.

[43:53] Ebony: That drive to the Sahara desert you gotta be ready for. That was 10 hours. Ten.

[44:01] Michelle: I know. I just loved it how you chronicled, you know, like, the night before when your girl group was out, you know, late and, you know, taking part of all the customs of Morocco, and the next day you guys are in the van and you're just out. That was great.

[44:26] Ebony: So, and it's cool because I got with this experience with doing, with doing traveling a lot, I was able to, like, curate group trips, like, like minded people that had the same, like, let's go mindset and let's create memories or people that want to start, like, content creation or start their blog or their YouTube, they would travel with me because, like, I kind of highlight cool stuff. I think, like, so cool.

[44:51] Michelle: I love it. Yeah. And, you know, I'm not in your age group or anything, but I just found myself just, like, transported to that place and just a part of your tribe and just having fun, letting my hair down. Like, how you created that, the videos and everything, your stories, it, it just really made me feel like a part of your group and that I could be having fun like that, too. It was so cool.

[45:21] Ebony: Yes. I love that. That just made my day. I'm not gonna lie, because that's exactly what I wanted people to feel like, if you can't go, I want you to feel this way.

[45:29] Michelle: Exactly. And to motivate people to go, that looks like a cool place. Like, I would love to go there.

[45:36] Ebony: Yes. Thank you so much.

[45:39] Michelle: When I said you're everywhere, you're everywhere. You are on LinkedIn, you are on YouTube. Of course, your Instagram, we talked about that. You have a website and you've been featured in a lot of big publications. So the Business Insider, the Forbes feature, the Washington Post feature. But just tell me about that. How did you get yourself out there and get your message out there?

[46:09] Ebony: Yeah. So when I first started frontpage ebb, I just kept posting content. And the first feature I ever had was in Essence magazine. And I didn't know I had that feature. They had a travel segment and I didn't know. My friend was like, hey, girl, do you know that you're in essence travel segment for highlighting Tulum, Mexico? And I was like, really? Like, I didn't because at this time, Tulum wasn't like a place that everybody was going to. I actually had planned to relocate to Tulum at one point in my life, but I never went through with it. And they were, I guess I was featured to highlight that. And then from there, one of the girls from Forbes was like, hey, I'm doing a travel segment and I want to highlight your lifestyle as a, as a traveler and a traveler and a nurse practitioner who travels as well. I said, okay, cool. I know I got a pretty cool lifestyle. So let me tell you about it. So I did that. The thing with these articles is when you get one feature, there's going to be other journalists that's going to reach out. So from the Forbes feature, Business Insider, somebody, a journalist from Business Inside reached out. Then it came, Washington Post, good Morning America, Yahoo News, Travel New York. And so when they see these things, they're like, okay, we want to do our own article. I don't know if it's a competition or anything, but we want to do our own article on this person, so that's where all the features came from.

[47:34] Michelle: That is so cool. And they picked the perfect person because you are so engaging and your spirit is just so joyful and your smile is amazing. Like, I know that my listeners can't see your smile, but you guys need to go to her Instagram and her YouTube and you'll see her in all her glory. Yeah. You're amazing, Ebony. I love what you're doing for your patients, first of all, and the nurse practitioner community and the nursing community in general. And, man, keep it up because there's such a need for it. And you obviously don't have any trouble getting your message out there. So just, yeah, keep on keeping on. You're doing a great job. And it's been a joy for me to talk to you today and to, you know, live vicariously through all your travels. You are inspiring me to get out of my house and get on a plane and go somewhere.

[48:39] Ebony: That's all it's gonna take, one place, I promise you.

[48:43] Michelle: I know my listeners know that I'm like a nervous traveler, and I have traveled. It's just, I hate the nervous part of it. I want that to be gone. And if somebody could wave a magic wand over me and say, you're never going to be a nervous traveler again, I think I would just be traveling the world. But it's just one trip at a time and, and I know I will travel again for sure. But you have certainly inspired me.

[49:13] Ebony: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[49:17] Michelle: Yeah, and I thank Irnise for recommending you. You've been amazing. Yeah. So do you, do you recommend anyone as a guest on this podcast, Ebony?

[49:28] Ebony: Yeah. So first, what are you looking for specifically? Like, as far as, you know, what.

[49:34] Michelle: I'm really looking for lately, and I haven't put out my APD yet. Sometimes on Instagram, I'll put out like a, you know, I'm looking for this type of nurse, but I really would love to talk to a nurse ethicist.

[49:51] Ebony: Yeah.

[49:53] Michelle: So if you have any leads, definitely, like, send them my way. I'm really a community member of our local bioethics committee, and while I was working, I served on that for twelve years, and they so kindly said, why don't you stay on as a community member? And I have really, really enjoyed that. We don't have a nurse ethicist on that committee, but I would really love to talk to a nurse ethicist.

[50:25] Ebony: I'll try to find one.

[50:28] Michelle: I know you have a wide network.

[50:30] Ebony: Yeah, I'll try. I'll try my best to find one there. Awesome. Is there any, anyone else or any, any specific that you're trying to look for as well?

[50:45] Michelle: You know, I have so many different upcoming guests that I think right now just the nurse ethicist is really on my radar.

[50:53] Ebony: Okay, I'll try.

[50:55] Michelle: But you know what? I'm open to anybody and from any specialty. If somebody pops into your mind that, like, I love, you know, this person would be so great, send them my way as well.

[51:07] Ebony: Gotcha. I will.

[51:08] Michelle: Yeah. Thank you.

[51:09] Ebony: Thank you.

[51:10] Michelle: Michelle, where can we find you?

[51:12] Ebony: You can find me on Instagram a lot. I have two pages. If you want to know more about being an independent contractor, traveling for doing locums, for travel work, you can find me on @ebbthenp. And then if you're looking to travel a lot or be inspired to travel or even travel with me, you can find me at @frontpage_ebb. Frontpage Eb on Instagram as well. I am on YouTube and I promise I'm going to do better. I want to say Q four. I promise I'm going to do better. Q four. Or probably early next year. With being on YouTube and showcasing different places to travel and also like nursing, it's a little bit harder to showcase like nursing stuff because you don't want to violate hip or anything like that. But I'll try my best to showcase that stuff as well. But I'm on YouTube at Travel with EB on YouTube. And you can Google Ebony time and then you'll see amazing articles written about me as well.

[52:21] Michelle: Yeah, like I said, you're everywhere and I love it. So thank you so much for being my guest today, Ebony, thank you for having me.

[52:30] Ebony: I appreciate it. Michelle.

[52:31] Michelle: Yeah, we're down to the last five minutes, so we're at the five minute snippet and it's just five minutes of fun. And because you are a travel guru, this is a travel edition.

[52:45] Ebony: Yay.

[52:45] Michelle: Okay, there's some trivia in here and also just some questions about traveling. So you ready to go?

[52:54] Ebony: Okay, I am ready when you are.

[52:55] Michelle: So I got a lot of these questions from watching your Instagram highlights from your travel account. And I know you've been to Rome. So approximately how much money is thrown into Rome's Trevi fountain each day?

[53:55] Ebony: Oh, my gosh. Whoa. $1.3 billion. Because there's no. In there. You know, like.

[54:08] Michelle: Yeah. Did you throw any money in there?

[54:12] Ebony: I did. I threw, like, I. So I changed my dollars, like, $5 into quarters and pennies and nickels, because, like, you know what? You don't throw dollars in there. You really throw coins in there.

[54:25] Michelle: Right.

[54:25] Ebony: And I threw $5 worth in there.

[54:29] Michelle: Well, apparently it's around $3,200 each year.

[54:34] Ebony: Oh, really?

[54:35] Michelle: Yeah.

[54:36] Ebony: 1.3 billion?

[54:40] Michelle: Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. Convince me to travel to Rome.

[54:45] Ebony: The pasta. Do you like pasta?

[54:47] Michelle: I love pasta.

[54:49] Ebony: Let me tell you, I am a person that regardless, wherever I go, any country, even Turkey, I ate pasta so many times, I don't know what it is. The pasta seems lighter than in America. And the best pasta I had was from Rome.

[55:09] Michelle: Yeah, I've heard that from so many people that travel to Europe, and they say, so I'm gluten-sensitive, and so I don't eat traditional pasta made with the semolina flour, which I absolutely love, because the ones that try to mimic that, they are just not as good. They never will be. But people that have traveled to Europe say that the pasta, the bread there is so much different than what we have here in. In the US, and that they can have a gluten sensitivity here, but over there, they don't feel it. So that would be, like, I'd be down to do that and just eat pasta and bread the whole time.

[55:53] Ebony: It doesn't feel like so much carbs, too. Cause I don't eat pasta like that at home for some reason. But when I'm overseas and the restaurant has pasta, I'm going to get pasta.

[56:04] Michelle: I'm down for it. Okay. About what percentage of flights are delayed per day in the US? Do you have any idea?

[56:14] Ebony: Do you have the answer? I'm gonna make a guess. Okay. Yeah, 25%. Oh. In the Us, is it okay? Okay, 25%.

[56:24] Michelle: Yeah, 20%.

[56:26] Ebony: Ah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[56:28] Michelle: I felt like it was higher even than 25%.

[56:31] Ebony: That's what I was about to say. I'm like, oh, no. What you said in the US, I don't know. Okay, okay, okay.

[56:36] Michelle: What do you love and hate about flying?

[56:40] Ebony: Whoo. So, for me, I like the window seat in a business class. I don't fly business class often, though, because I try to save my coins. So window seat is a priority for me. I will pay for a window seat. What I hate about traveling is landing. Take-off is fine. Landing I have an issue with is just that anticipation of when it's gonna land. But you know what? That was so funny. That's how I am with roller coasters, too. Taking up a roller coaster spine, it's that dip that I'm, like, concerned about. So you're like, okay, we're about to go down. When are we actually gonna hit the ground? And one of the things that provides me comfort, and I think, and I realized this the other day. Cause I was just saying this to myself when I was coming home from Turkey. The reason why I like window seats so much is I like looking at the wing of the plane. I realized that I studied how the wing comes out to prevent it from going down too fast. So I'm like, okay, I see that it's coming out. It's not too windy. Our landing is not going to be too bad. I don't know why my mind think that. And every time, it's always right. I don't know. Like, you know why?

[57:59] Michelle: Because you're a nurse, that's why. It's like we want to have, we want to, first of all, know about everything, so we want to know how aviation works, how does the plane stay in the sky, you know, all of that stuff. But we. And we also are kind of a little bit control freaks. And so, yeah, it's like, not, not like, you know, we could change anything by sitting in the window and looking at the wing and making sure it was doing its wing duty and all that. You know what I mean? But I don't know. It makes us feel better. That's so funny.

[58:33] Ebony: Exactly. I think it's a comfort thing for me. So anywhere I go, I like, if it's like, I try to get. I try to check in early, you know, so I could get the window seat, or I'll try. I'll pay for my window seat because it just brings me comfort just looking at the wind.

[58:50] Michelle: Okay. In Cuba, when you went to Cuba, you sat in a chair that another famous person sat in. Who was the famous person?

[59:01] Ebony: Obama.

[59:02] Michelle: Yes.

[59:03] Ebony: I remember that chair. I was like, that was an old trip. I remember that chair. I think it was red.

[59:09] Michelle: I love it. I loved that part of your highlight. I was like, oh, that's so cool. I'm going to use that as one of my questions. Okay. You also went to a really cool place that I want to go. Banff, Canada.

[59:21] Ebony: Oh, okay.

[59:22] Michelle: Yeah. And so you went to the hot springs. And do you know what the temperature of the hot springs is?

[59:30] Ebony: No. 104.

[59:34] Michelle: Okay. I thought. I thought this was really hot, but it says the water's temperature varies by season. In the winter, it can get up to 116 degrees.

[59:46] Ebony: Oh, wow.

[59:47] Michelle: Yeah. And 81 in the spring.

[59:50] Ebony: Wow. Wow, wow.

[59:52] Michelle: Did it feel that hot to you?

[59:53] Ebony: It felt hot. I definitely went in the wintertime, but it was comfortable. It didn't feel too bad.

[59:59] Michelle: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I thought, wow, that's kind of hot, but I would love it anyway. Okay, another place you went is Tanzania, and that was also cool. And in Tanzania, you were dancing to the music of a Jamaican artist. Who is the artist?

[01:00:18] Ebony: Oh, gosh. What jamaican.

[01:00:22] Michelle: Like, the most popular jamaican artist, Bob Marley. Yes.

[01:00:28] Ebony: That was a guess, because I don't remember.

[01:00:31] Michelle: You don't? You're like, I don't remember that part. Good thing that there was your highlight to catalog that for you.

[01:00:40] Ebony: Oh, I love that.

[01:00:41] Michelle: That's funny. What famous genre of music originated in Jamaica? 

[01:00:50] Ebony: Reggae, of course, I'm from Jamaica.

[01:00:52] Michelle: Yes. Yes. Okay. A couple more questions. Yeah. And I don't think. I don't know if you went to this place.

[01:01:01] Ebony: Okay.

[01:01:02] Michelle: Maybe Big Ben is located in what European city?

[01:01:07] Ebony: London.

[01:01:08] Michelle: Yeah. Did you go there?

[01:01:10] Ebony: Right? No, I have not been there.

[01:01:13] Michelle: Yeah. Big Ben is in London. Okay. And then in what country would you find tapas?

[01:01:21] Ebony: Colombia.

[01:01:23] Michelle: You probably would, because it's a spanish country or a latin country in Spain. Tapas. I love tapas. Yes. Awesome. Hey, you passed the five minute snippet travel edition Ebony.

[01:01:39] Ebony: I like that. Wow. Like, I haven't gone into my highlights in a long time.

[01:01:43] Michelle: Oh, awesome. You're like, what did I post in there?

[01:01:48] Ebony: I'm gonna go and look it up after. Like, did I really do that?

[01:01:51] Michelle: I love it. You had a lot of fun. You will be reliving all of your fun that you had everywhere. Thank you so much, Ebony. You've just been a joy to talk to. I just appreciate you coming on so much and sharing your life with my audience.

[01:02:05] Ebony: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. This was fun.

[01:02:10] Michelle: It was fun. All right, you have a great rest of your day.

[01:02:13] Ebony: You too.