Imagine for a moment if Angie Gray were a recipe. She would be equal parts professionalism, inspiration, and compassion, with just a pinch of badassery thrown in.
But she is not a recipe. She is a thought leader, a nurse coach, a keynote speaker, and she has the challenging task of training C-suite executives to bridge the gap between them and the healthcare professionals on the front lines.
Angie and I are soul sisters of a sort: we love sporting our rose-colored glasses, which is not a negative. We are not blind to the dirty side of nursing: the bullying, burnout, staffing, and wage inequity. Rather, we choose to see the positives and to be the change we wish to see in the profession.
Our discussion was filled with wisdom and insights about why our profession is both great and yet struggling. Angie’s hashtag, #lovingdisruption, is gaining popularity and resonance, and I can’t wait for you to hear her explanation. My prediction? It’s going viral.
So get in, sit down, buckle up, and get ready for a wild ride because this woman has a lot to say!
In the five-minute snippet: she’s a hunker-down kinda gal. For Angie's bio, visit my website (link below) and listen now!
High-Performance Nursing
Sister Friends Podcast
Angie on Dr. Oz show
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[00:00] Michelle: Imagine for a moment if Angie Gray was a recipe.
[00:05] She would be equal parts professionalism, inspiration and compassion with just a pinch of badassery thrown in.
[00:14] But Angie is not a recipe. She is a thought leader, a nurse coach, a keynote speaker, and she has the challenging task of training C-suite executives to bridge the gap between them and the healthcare professionals on the front lines.
[00:33] Angie and I are soul sisters of a sort. We love sporting our rose-colored glasses, which is not a negative.
[00:41] We are not blind to the dirty side of nursing, the bullying, burnout, staffing, and wage inequity. Rather, we choose to see the positives and to be the change we wish to see in the profession.
[00:55] Our discussion was filled with wisdom and insights about why our profession is both great and yet struggling. Angie's hashtag, #lovingdisruption is gaining popularity and resonance and I can't wait for you to hear her explanation.
[01:12] My prediction, it's going viral.
[01:16] So get in, sit down, buckle up, and get ready for a wild ride because Angie has a lot to say.
In the five-minute snippet: She is a hunker-down kind of gal.
[01:45] Well, good morning, Angie. Welcome to the podcast.
[01:48] Angie: Good morning, Michelle Harris. Thank you for having me.
[01:51] Michelle: It's my pleasure. You came highly recommended by your friend and mine, Susan Davis.
[02:01] Angie: One of my all time favorites. She's so amazing. In fact, I was just thinking about her this morning. Haven't talked to her for a couple of months actually. She's been crazy busy. But thank you for sharing that with me.
[02:12] She's pretty special.
[02:13] Michelle: She really is. She was an amazing guest and she's doing amazing things as you are, Angie. So we kind of met on LinkedIn. That's when I first discovered you.
[02:27] And you are known as the Stellar Nurse. And you're doing so many things with your coaching business, High-performance Nursing. And you are a keynote speaker, a coach, a trainer.
[02:42] Yeah, you're doing a lot. So we're gonna get into all of that, but why don't you start by just telling us, who is Angie Gray? What's your story?
[02:52] Angie: Man, do we have that kind of time for real, Michelle? Well, you know, what I actually like to say is I am first and foremost a mom and I have been married to my husband for 34 years.
[03:07] Those are my greatest accomplishments.
[03:09] And honestly, they take up most of my brain space and all my love and all the things I have to give. They represent who I am in many ways. They're extensions of me and they're pretty amazing.
[03:21] So I'd like to think I had a little bit to do with that, but they're pretty amazing human beings. So we have seven children, my husband and I, like I said, We've been married 34 years.
[03:29] We live in Iowa.
[03:32] I have a nursing background, and I spent some quite a bit of time nursing and then came home to homeschool our kids. So we homeschooled our seven kids for 18 years.
[03:44] I left my nursing job is what I came home from, due to a lot of toxicity in the culture, bullying, things like that.
[03:54] But, Michelle, make sure we come back to that, because I see it much differently now, hindsight being 2020.
[04:01] It was a decision out of survival, and it ended up to be one of the best decisions we ever made for many reasons.
[04:10] Being able to be home with the kids and be part of their upbringing they all went to at middle school. They. We swooshed them out of the nest because my math skills don't go much further than the seventh grade.
[04:22] So that's what happened there. And then when the last three were around, about 18 years after I had left nursing, I started doing some stuff with a company I had partnered with and had some very fast success.
[04:36] And I was asked to go all over the country talking about prevention education. So I went from nursing to prevention education, primarily around awareness and prevention of anxiety, depression, and suicide, and has it how it has to do with our gut health and the decisions we make about our health.
[04:55] So I got to do that, and that was amazing opportunity. I started to sort of outgrow that and I wanted to start talking about relationships.
[05:05] Something some people know about me and Michelle is that my husband and I were divorced from each other for a year and then remarried. So obviously that's why I said, you sure you have time for this, Michelle?
[05:16] So that really taught me a ton. And so I really felt like I was heading in the direction of doing something with my skill set around relationships. And that's when I had an amazing opportunity to go on the Dr.
[05:30] Oz show as a partner of this company, as our nurse representative. I got to co host with him twice for two segments called the Future of Nursing. The reason that was so pivotal is, yes, it was an amazing opportunity.
[05:42] It was cool to be on TV and all that stuff, but really it was the submissions from these nurses that were why do you think you're the future of nursing?
[05:50] And they were students and they were talking about, oh, because I want to make a difference. I'm going to do this and that and the other, you know, just super passionate, man.
[05:59] How many times I've told this story, Michelle. I get veklempt every time I tell it. It's shocking to me. It's crazy. Yeah. So they're just very excited about what they get to do and what they want to do and the difference they want to make in the world.
[06:13] And hearing that messaging and then knowing from not only my own experience, that had been at that time, you know, 15 or so years prior, and I had been, unbeknownst to me, loosely interviewing seasoned nurses that were my friends.
[06:30] That was not the case. Things that were happening in real time were not. We were not preparing our nursing students for what was to come. And that was all in the space of how to be a trusted leader, how to create trusted space around me, how to communicate effectively.
[06:49] They were just not prepared for people.
[06:52] And so anyway, at that point was a real pivoting moment for me. And so I drew all my skills together and, you know, you know, it takes. Michelle, takes a lot of energy and shifting and blah, blah, blah, change branding.
[07:03] And I created an online course that I love and I'm very proud of, and that is to fill that gap for nursing students or seasoned nurses, CEOs, all of them that are in healthcare, so that we can create a trusted culture and people feel safe and can thrive.
[07:19] So there you go. That's a snippet.
[07:22] Michelle: That's an amazing story, Angie.
[07:24] And, you know, first of all, there's a couple of similarities in there. So you have seven kids. I'm one of eight. So from a big family.
[07:36] And funny. You know that. Not funny. But I've only known one other person that has been divorced from their spouse and then remarried, and that's my brother Chris.
[07:48] And, yeah, he and his wife were divorced for almost two years and then they remarried and they've been remarried now for 40 years.
[08:00] Angie: Yeah.
[08:01] Michelle: Yeah.
[08:01] Angie: So, well, thank you for sharing that with me. It is pretty special. And, you know, we. We were married, interestingly enough, for seven years. And then, you know, the whole seven year thing, even though there's anything to that, but for us, it really was seven years divorce for the year.
[08:16] And we actually don't count that we didn't start over because in our. Our feelings about it are, dude, that year was the hardest year of our Life, you know, those the year before, the year after, you know, so we count it.
[08:29] Definitely say it should be worth like another seven years actually. But yeah, thank you for sharing that with me. That's a big part of our story. My story and where really at the source.
[08:40] So much of where my stuff comes from, the, I don't know, all of it really comes from sourcing from my lived experiences. So.
[08:49] Michelle: Yeah, well, in talking about your story, you were talking about how nursing students and new nurses were graduating and saying that they want to make a difference and they were all fired up and I guess kind of idealistic about nursing.
[09:07] And I can remember when I was that type of nurse and for me that lasted a very long time, you know, 36 year career in nursing. And I don't know why I didn't see things in a negative light sooner because I know those things were there.
[09:32] But at what point do you think nurses kind of wake up and see the light in terms of things not being, you know, all peachy keen and stop looking at nursing through rose colored glasses?
[09:50] Angie: Thank you for that question.
[09:53] It's going to be emotional podcast and I want to thank you because I think I had posted something about that in a lot of my, you know, thought leadership and posting and all the things, you know, there's a balance between choosing, encouraging us to know that our power become, our power is in how we think about things.
[10:14] That's where miracles happen. That's where the shifts happened. And that doesn't mean there's no boundaries.
[10:20] We can choose to think differently and choose to show up, choose to do the work that's inside of us first instead of pointing the finger. All of those things that I talk about that I think are absolute truth.
[10:30] To look beyond the illusion of all the bullshit that surround us is absolutely true. And there are boundaries, you know, and that those go to me. That's where the coaching piece comes in.
[10:42] In all my training is around self awareness first, looking inward, seeing who you are, recognizing your triggers. Am I showing up? Are my skills excellent? Am I doing the best that I can?
[10:54] And then looking at the realities of, you know, what, what am I okay with, what I'm not okay with? So, you know, that's what my training does. That's what my, obviously coaching is all about, bringing out the best in people.
[11:06] So I think that's a layered question. Michelle, as you were saying it, I was thinking, I wonder if I, for instance, if I hadn't had a husband that supported me at that time and I didn't have to have the financial security that came from my work.
[11:25] I would not have had that opportunity to leave. We made absolute sacrifices. Absolutely. I mean, you know, to be honest, wew ent to a church at one time to see if I could get some help for bread, like literal groceries early on because my husband's a contractor also.
[11:43] So we had hard times and everybody, not everyone can do that or wants to do that for that matter. So I think it's layered in, meaning that, you know, not everybody has a choice.
[11:52] So when do you think nurses see beyond the rose colored glasses? That is a very individual and unique to them response. Again, why I think I'm so passionate about it is to help women, men, whoever are in the space, figure that out.
[12:10] Is it time to go? Because remember early on when you asked me that question about, or I asked you to put a pin in it about how I left because of bullying, toxicity, all that stuff, all that was true.
[12:22] And because I now know now what I didn't know then, I can choose to look at that situation differently. I see it much differently. I certainly didn't. I think I came to the planet, Michelle, like so many nurses.
[12:35] I think I know a great percentage of them come to the planet with this very innate, or what's the word? They have, they have an ability to be compassionate, to love, to want to serve.
[12:51] And not everybody, because nurses are indifferent certainly in different spaces of nursing. But there's a thing behind all of that because they want to serve, whatever that looks like. Right?
[13:01] So I wonder. Well, I just know that I came to the planet like that. I wanted to go do nursing for many of the common reasons, but I did not have self awareness.
[13:10] I didn't have the communication skills to be able to ask for what I needed, stand up for myself, all those things.
[13:18] And neither did my leaders. And that actually is the crux of the whole deal. None of us had it. They certainly didn't have it. So although I saw their face as an RBF face, you know, does that mean they were.
[13:32] No, it means they had a shit ton of work to do. Excuse my language, sorry. I should have asked for permission. I get passionate about this and I'm going to refrain from particular words, but I get passionate about it because it's still happening, Michelle.
[13:46] So you know, this for me now was 25 years ago and you know, these, these women that were my leaders, I was afraid of them, they looked mean. I misdosed a medication to an elderly patient under my care because I was so scared at the time.
[14:08] Double checking narcotics at the time, you know, when I was there, I had to check it and it wasn't cool, you know, it was very, very scary. I take responsibility for that.
[14:18] But that definitely played into it, the fear from the bullying. This particular RN, that was
[14:26] who I was reporting to at that time.
[14:29] He was a man and I had been sexually assaulted by him and reported it. Nothing happened. Happened twice, you know. So that being said, yeah, there's all that stuff still happening.
[14:42] So how I look at it now is rose-colored glasses are good in many situations, but if it's causing you harm physically or emotionally, that's not okay. Make sure you're showing up the best way that you can so you're not part of the problem.
[14:58] Choose to be part of the solve. Choose to see people through rose- colored glasses unless they're crossing the boundary.
[15:05] And that's all work, that's all internal work and learning to be self aware, learning to self actualize, learning to recognize your triggers, all that stuff. And then learning to know what boundaries are and when they need to be applied and how to enforce them.
[15:23] So all and all that just part of building a trusted culture that people want to stay in. So anyway, that was a long answer to that sort of layered question.
[15:33] Michelle: It was, it was, it was a loaded question. And I think you handled it brilliantly. And I'm sorry that that happened to you, Angie. That's a big problem, you know, lateral violence, violence from patients in nursing.
[15:51] And that's something that I really would love to talk to an expert about and really delve into that because, you know, it's becoming more and more kind of mainstream, unfortunately.
[16:03] And more in the news. I just saw a report on it yesterday on the national news about how nurses, patients are being sexually assaulted, being physically assaulted in hospitals. And man, I'm sorry that that happened to you.
[16:25] Thank you for sharing that. Because that's part of our world, right? Unfortunately.
[16:31] Angie: Yeah.
[16:32] Michelle: Thank you.
[16:33] Yeah. And I think that, you know, as you were speaking about your leaders, really not knowing how to lead there, you know, I totally relate to that. I sort of grew up in a hospital where the leaders were chosen because they were really good nurses.
[16:56] And there was this belief at the time that if you're a really good nurse, if you show great skills as far as your nursing skills, you're going to make a great leader.
[17:12] So they would take really great nurses and say, you should be a manager or you should be a director and then put them in these positions but not give them any leadership training.
[17:26] And it was really sad because, you know, I saw a lot of great nurses become burnt out within a few years of leaving their bedside position and becoming nurse leaders and really not having the tools to do that and then, you know, leaving either the profession altogether or, you know, our hospital.
[17:51] So how can we, how can we foster new leaders?
[17:57] Angie: It's a great question. Thank you for and what you were just saying too, Michelle. I second that. And, and say that it's still happening. That was your experience as you grew up in nursing.
[18:06] Was certainly my experience. And I'm not throwing anybody into their blessed. There is no blame. It is a systemic problem. It is my problem. It is your problem, it is everyone's problems.
[18:17] It's all of us, because we're going to need the care of that nurse someday who will be led by either a shitty leader or halfway decent leader or really good leader who can make those, develop those cultures.
[18:30] So the question about how we help and support the leaders, I love it because it's. What I've been talking about recently is I get, I have great opportunities to coach and train and do keynotes and normally that under normal circumstances those are done for C-level leadership.
[18:51] That's done for the core leadership team, you know, your sales folks, your. Your CEO and your COO and the EDS and you know, the core people. So that's great. That is wonderful.
[19:06] However, I have felt this way for a long time and we just said it's a systemic problem is. And I just talked with a client of mine yesterday and the same conversation happened with a woman who has been in every position, every senior leadership position in for this, this person in senior living and now owns her own company.
[19:26] So she's been in all the spaces.
[19:28] To me, it can't be just one person. Michelle. It can't be. Michelle gets coaching because the organization saw that there's potential for her to maybe grow or maybe she's struggling somewhere.
[19:38] So the organization's gonna come in and pay for Michelle to get some coaching. P.S. that's the only way it should be done. No one has time.
[19:46] Zero people. Okay? I can't say zero, a very tiny minute percentage of people are seeking out their own training outside of their CEUs, their contact hours. They have to have to get any sort of personal growth and development.
[20:00] And the ones that are getting it are the senior leaders. That's it. So it's super unlevel playing ground. Let's using you as the example, pretending. So Michelle gets this coaching and Michelle goes from a good leader to a great leader.
[20:16] She comes now she has opportunity to have one person strictly devoted to her, you know, in this one hour space that she can just let it all out and go, here's what I want to work on today.
[20:27] Here's what happened today. How can you best, you know, how can we work on it? And so I'm devoted to you to help you figure out you and the best way you can lead.
[20:35] I've got my skills I bring to the table and I know how to do that because I'm a professional, you're a professional and we work together and get it done.
[20:42] Now what an organization expects to happen, I guess is that now you're supposed to not only emulate but train, I guess everyone else. Because now you're going to have a meeting with the team that you lead, Michelle, and you're going to go to that meeting and you're going to emulate and you're going to kick its ass.
[20:57] You're going to do great. Again, sorry for my words, but you're going to do great. You're going to feel confident until four of the other people that you're leading at that table are speaking inappropriately.
[21:08] They're not showing up in the skills that you're learning and you're growing in. You can clearly see that these people on your team could really use some help. One hour.
[21:20] I have one hour with them. Okay, so now what am I supposed to do? Okay, your coach will encourage you to have one on one meetings with your team. Okay, great.
[21:28] Michelle gives me the thumbs up and Michelle's now going to add one more thing to her plate which is what she should do is her responsibility, right? To have one on one meetings with these people to grow, not just help them grow, but also to be efficient and to be able to do her job so that they can do, I mean it just, it just goes on and on and on or I mean that's great, right?
[21:52] I'm happy that we are coaching Michelle's. I'm honored to do that and it does make a difference. But it's a difference in, you know, this is going to be dumb.
[22:02] The only thing that's coming to my mind, it, it's the difference between putting a bucket in a sink and just letting it drip in and it taking hours and hours.
[22:10] I mean actually this happens in my bathtub sometimes because we have problems but you know putting something in your thing and just letting it drip, drip, drip, or turning it on full throttle.
[22:22] And we're thirsty, man. Okay? It ends up being a good analogy because people are thirsty and you're making them wait, and maybe it never happens. Do you know what I mean?
[22:32] Like, I see I'm getting frustrated. It's not frustration. It's really because I love my people.
[22:38] And it extends beyond that. It extends beyond that to my friend who just had. My dear friend who's a bit older than me, she's bipolar and she's managed very well, but she had an episode because of some other things that happened.
[22:57] And this hospital was unstaffed or not unstaffed, not properly staffed.
[23:04] They're stressed out, they're burned out. They're not giving her good care. So I'm not pointing any fingers. She was violent. I mean, she was having an episode. But there was not enough people.
[23:16] And then there weren't enough people to send her somewhere where she could be safe. And the people that are there were not handling it well. We're not trained. We're not handling it, you know, so it became a very dangerous situation to the point where they sent her home.
[23:29] She shouldn't have been sent home. And, you know, we go on and on with different scenarios like that. But I get passionate, Michelle, because I care. And the conversations are super important to have between you and I to spread awareness.
[23:43] And hopefully people are hearing this and jumping on board to say, raise their hand. Here's the other thing. People aren't raising their hand.
[23:52] Very few, because they think it's hopeless. I just sent out a survey, and I'll be sharing those results soon.
[23:59] Everybody wanted coaching. It was about coaching. What do you think about coaching? How can it be helpful to you? How can it be helpful to your organization, your team? All this data that I collected, and at the end it says, are you interested in coaching?
[24:10] Yes. Like, 79% of the people said yes. The people that said no misunderstood the last question, which was, if your organization paid for your coaching opportunities and it was during working hours, would you be interested?
[24:27] The people that said no, misunderstood the question and said out of a one to 10 or whatever, said they were very low score, saying that they did not believe that their organization.
[24:39] That they had a chance at even that ever happening. Their organization would never pay for that.
[24:44] And then the questions go on to ask a little bit more detailed, but the hope just isn't there. So they're not speaking up to ask for it and the other challenge that we have is having these COOs, the CEOs, those that are spending the money, understand that it is not only technology that's going to move the needle.
[25:04] It needs to.
[25:05] They need to understand how absolutely tied, supporting your people through personal growth and development and technology advancements are. They have to go hand in hand or we will never realize our fullest potential and we will continue to lose really good nurses, really good leaders that have the potential to be great.
[25:28] Michelle: Yes. You know, there is that disconnect and I can see how nurses would be really negative and say, you know, my organization is never going to pay for that or even invest in their training as leaders.
[25:47] And there is this huge disconnect with the C-suite in healthcare organizations. And you know, what are they missing?
[25:58] Because as nurses working the boots on the ground, there is this huge disconnect. And what are they missing? Why are they not seeing us? How are they not serving nurses?
[26:14] Angie: Yeah. That is the question that I talk about all day long in every single meeting, eight hours a day. It's the most important question. And what I, my newest question to every time I have an opportunity and I'm, I am creating those opportunities, is to ask the CEOs, the COOs, those that are making the financial decision, what three things do you need to hear from me for this to be a hell yes?
[26:43] For us to put in a program for coaching and training, what does it need to be for you to say, that's a hell yes, let's get it done? Because I think, I believe I'm a teacher, that all of the feelings that we have, and let's just say I'm a CEO, or any of us, let's not say we're a CEO, any of us have feelings at all or can boil down to fear or love.
[27:05] And so if we have a lot of these senior leaders that do understand that their nursing staff, their boots on the ground, folks, not just the nurses, it's the CNA's, it's not only nurses.
[27:17] So I don't want to only single them out.
[27:19] Michelle: Yes.
[27:19] Angie: But people unhappy with a culture that feels unsafe psychologically and physically. And we know that the data has been out for years and years and years and years and years and years and years.
[27:30] Well, the urgency is here. Time's up. So we, it's this mindset of I don't know what it is, we could bring it back to money. And so who, who is leading, who is ultimately leading the largest organizations that are sort of driving all of this to me, that still doesn't make sense.
[27:49] If it's about money, then why wouldn't we find the money to provide the support? So it's not even just a long term, better ROI, it's also short term. It takes, in my experience, it doesn't take very long to turn a mindset around, whether I'm working with a client that they're going to stay, they're going to be willing to at least try to stay until, until we can work through some stuff.
[28:11] Right? So, you know, it is about that mindset that I think that comes from fear. Like, if a fear changes, fear of not having money, a fear of losing, you know, whatever it is, I believe that's it.
[28:23] And it's my job that I take seriously to continue to ask that question. And whoever will have the courage to step up and answer that question, work it out with me.
[28:33] Maybe they don't even have.
[28:35] Like, I spoke to a person yesterday and asked that question and they said, can I get back to you? And I said, you absolutely can. Thank you so much.
[28:43] Because that's the question that no one's probably asking them, you know, like directly, like, what are the three things you would need to hear? Because otherwise you either don't care and we're not going to.
[28:54] You're not going to answer them, or you care and maybe you don't know how to answer that, but let's get back to me. Or you do know, or you'll sit here in this zoom meeting with me and you'll workshop it.
[29:04] Like, is it cost? Okay, let's talk about cost.
[29:08] I personally am not going to make myself so unaffordable that I can't help the people that I'm here to serve. You know, like, there, we have to be able to figure that out.
[29:17] And I want to honor those fears as well. I need to be a safe space for. To talk with those people too. Like, okay, I understand money is a deal.
[29:26] How do you do all these things? And may I say one other thing too, Michelle? I don't want to digress too much from your question, but part of the, I think the importance of you said the disconnect.
[29:38] So I have a podcast coming out too, and you're inspiring me all the time when I'm listening, is to bridge that trust gap between C-suite leadership and the boots on the ground.
[29:47] Because that's the key, right? The mental management. So there's those three spaces and to bring that together.
[29:52] And if we can do that, we have some hope.
[29:58] But People do not feel the safety to be able to answer questions, and the CEOs and the COOs aren't asking the questions. So it's not. It's not happening. But to go back to what you said, what we were talking about earlier, where the.
[30:14] This kind of support through coaching and training is most often given to the leadership, core leadership, and those teams, those direct teams, it's unfortunate because I believe that the whole, the boots on the ground, the frontline nurses, the bedside nurses need it as well.
[30:33] They need to be able to come together. So I think I digress there a little bit now, because I forgot what I was saying. But all of that, all of that in a bag of chips, and there you go.
[30:45] Michelle: I love it.
[30:49] Angie: I feel like people are tired of having conversations. And that's where you and I and the people that like us, that are raising awareness to this and sharing thoughts, sharing podcasts, talking about it, we have to continue to support one another because it is shifting.
[31:04] I am actually talking to people that are willing to try to answer those questions and that are actually hiring me. Is the organization perfect? Because they've hired me to coach them or to do training or to keynote, and the things that they know I'm going to talk about, you know, no, we're not going to, you know, fix it in a day, but it is shifting.
[31:23] And so I do want that message to be clear. It absolutely is shifting.
[31:28] And that's a good thing. That's a really good thing.
[31:31] Michelle: Well, it is. And it's about damn time, right?
[31:34] Angie: Yep. Time's up. I mean, let's just use that hashtag, #timesup, folks. And I know they feel it, too. I think that's where it's going. Plus, let me go back to that really quick.
[31:42] I know, I believe that for whatever the reasoning is, the senior leadership obviously knows that time is up, there is an urgency. They are having their own challenges and burnout and compassion fatigue, and actually, in their own way, they're experiencing all of that.
[32:03] And that's the thing that I want to be able to bring together and to those that have great power, have great responsibility. That's where my secondary messaging comes in, is you have the power to think differently, you have the power to choose differently, you have a great responsibility, and time's up.
[32:26] Time to think differently.
[32:28] Michelle: Yeah, that's a great message. And let's talk about hashtags for a moment because you've been using this wonderful hashtag, l#ovingdisruption. So talk about where that came from and just a little bit about that.
[32:43] Angie: Oh, my gosh, you're the best.
[32:45] That's a great question.
[32:47] Oh, this makes me excited. I mean, it started a year ago almost, and I was feeling really, really frustrated. I was pumped. I was amped because I had just gone to Think Tank.
[32:59] That's another thing. We could talk about another time. Think Tank is founded by James Lee and Nicole Will, friends of mine who've now become dear friends of mine. But I had just come from that, and it was my first opportunity in a long time to be around other thought leaders that are in leadership in this.
[33:18] This instance in senior living, which we know, dude, if we don't pay attention to that piece of our industry, we are. We are screwed. We are screwed. That's another podcast, Michelle.
[33:29] We're having so many ideas for podcasts.
[33:31] Michelle: Oh, we're going to talk about that today, too, because I want to know what you do in that space. Yeah, okay.
[33:36] Angie: Okay. Okay. So anyway, I just left there and so I was really fired up. Felt very inspired and supported, and I just felt renewed to what my responsibility is here on this planet, in the space that I get to live out.
[33:48] My purpose to serve was that it was okay.
[33:53] Basically what we're saying, Michelle, I felt like, time's up. Everyone knows there's an urgency. There is a massive freaking elephant in the room every single time. And why the hell are we not talking about in every single meeting?
[34:04] Why. Why are we not talking about it every meeting? Why is there not a nurse leader for sure?
[34:11] And. And in addition to a nurse leader, we should have a future nurse leader at every single table that has to do with anything to do with the outcomes of a patient or resident.
[34:23] Absolutely.
[34:24] Michelle: Period.
[34:24] Angie: The end. And everyone does. Every conversation does. So I was very fired up about that not happening. And I thought my messaging is all around love. That is not a fluffy word to me.
[34:35] Remember we talked about divorce and being remarried, so. And seven kids.
[34:41] Love is the hardest thing to do and the easiest thing to do on the absolute planet. Bring me one thing, I tell people to tell me one thing that's harder and I could spin it.
[34:52] I can always peel it back to its love, its love for self or it's love for someone else. And so I felt really fired up for that. I am here to disrupt and disrupt.
[35:02] Sometimes people have a bad or. Sorry, not bad, but a negative idea of what disruption is. Until they figure out what disruption really is, it's just about changing things that aren't working.
[35:14] That's what it is. And disruption is good. Disruption has to happen if we want growth. We cannot remain thinking the same way we always thought that brought us to the way we've.
[35:26] The things we were experiencing. You know, our thoughts, like I said before, are our greatest power, and they are the cause. Everything that we're experiencing now is effect.
[35:37] And so I was like, we what? How do I put these two things together? And it just honestly just came to me. And so I was just like, okay, I'm going to start hashtagging and hopes.
[35:46] Hopefully people will get it or they'll ask me about it. And it did. That happened. I start with our amazing human being and dear friend and such an inspiration in my life.
[35:58] Just a badass, amazing woman, an amazing nurse, amazing leader, amazing innovator. Ms. Susan Davis. Doctor, excuse me, Susan Davis. She and Maggie Ortiz are. Do you know Maggie?
[36:12] Michelle: Yes.
[36:13] Angie: Well, you know, Maggie's. All of those verbs as well. And verbs. Is that right? No adjectives. Sorry. All of those.
[36:22] Love is a verb.
[36:24] Thank you. They reached out to me and they were super pumped about that hashtag. And so that's how actually we became friends. So that's what that's all about. I. I have had more people lately, even it sort of had a resurgence asking me about it.
[36:41] And so I'm really happy about that. I did have one thing that was also pretty cool. I had a company reach out to me and we had a really great conversation.
[36:51] Big company out of Canada, and they were looking to partner with me in some way. And one of the last things one of these gentlemen said was, as we move forward, I don't know if disruption is going to be the best.
[37:08] This loving disruption thing is going to be the best thing to hang on to. And I said, why is that? And he said, well, the people that are going to be hiring or paying the money don't want any disruption.
[37:22] They're going to think that's a negative thing. They're going to push back. They're going to. Hands off. Nope. We don't want anything to do with Angie Gray if she's talking about disruption.
[37:30] And I didn't have anything to say at the time. I'm actually probably glad. Grateful for that now. But later I thought, okay, that was really good because you just gave me an additional thing to talk about.
[37:42] I need to do better, actually, at what I mean when I say disruption. I need to do better at, you know, describing, talking that out. What do you think disruption is?
[37:54] And if you feel it's negative, why? And is that an opportunity for you to think differently, you know, is that an opportunity? Are you willing to think differently about this word disruption?
[38:05] And if we pair love with it, like I'm saying, does that feel better? You know, isn't that what we're doing? You know, we need to disrupt if we're going to love better and more to serve at a higher level, that's what's got to happen.
[38:17] So that's, that's where it came from.
[38:20] I'm happy that people are liking it.
[38:23] Michelle: Yeah, it's brilliant. And you know, I would say disruption.
[38:30] Well, I would say there's one constant in this world and it's change. Right? And so if we liken disruption to change, then, you know, I guess change is not such a negative word, but interesting look on it, on this person's part.
[38:55] And, and yeah, I could see where a lot of questions would come from that, like, why are you so scared of this word?
[39:02] Angie: It just means change.
[39:05] Michelle: Yeah.
[39:06] Angie: And you know, to seeking understanding for where that's coming from. First of all, change is hard.
[39:12] Change is scary for people. Going back to that fear that people are afraid. What does that, what does that mean? Am I going to have to do more? I mean, I mean, that can be like, you know, nobody wants change if you're, if you're a frontline, you know, bedside nurse, don't give me any more change, you know, don't get any more, you know, so change is not fun in, in depends on how we package it.
[39:33] And so disruption in when you were just talking, I was thinking about, you know, when people think of maybe a child or a person is disrupting.
[39:46] So you could think of that they like they came in a room and they're very disruptive. So if we look at even children or let's look at a memory care client being disrupting.
[39:57] Being disruptive, you know. Wow. So let us look at that.
[40:03] That behavior, as far as a child goes deep. Going, peeling back the onion, is seeking attention, seeking someone to see me, seeking I'm going to do whatever I have to do or what I can't control.
[40:19] Someone help me, you know.
[40:23] Yeah. So there's lots of ways to look at it. And I think we've had a mindset as a society that we go down that road of time's up. Are we willing as a society to think differently than we've thought before?
[40:35] And Michelle, that goes, you know, deep.
[40:40] That goes Deep. I have a good friend, Ali. Do you know Ali?
[40:45] Michelle: Yes
[40:46] Angie: Okay. So incredible human being and male nurse. And he posted something a couple weeks ago and he's awesome because he always tags me and all of his stuff. And I do the same.
[40:57] And yes, I do that for people just because I'm wanting to bring us together. I don't care if no one that I tag says anything on my post. So I always want to make that clear to people, and people are always good about it.
[41:07] But I think that's if I can plug that idea, y'all should be plugging me anywhere you want to or tagging me anywhere you want to. I will not be able to answer all the things, and I don't expect that either.
[41:17] But this is how we connect. This is how we show support for one another, bring each other's attention to the work that we're doing. Anyway, back to Ali. He posted something cool about.
[41:27] You know, all of his stuff is very cool, very clear messaging. And I was just had a day that day and I was like, in so many words, Michelle. Which of course, he eloquently responded to me, but in so many words, I was like, dude, this goes so much deeper.
[41:41] You know, as a woman, you want to disrupt nursing. You want to reinvent nursing. Scritt is the word that Ali uses a lot. Reinvent nursing. Okay. I mean, I, I'm being whatever right now, but, you know, I'm like, okay, let's reinvent the mindset around women because, dude, let's go way back, okay?
[42:01] I mean, you know, get Rebecca Love involved now and Melissa Mills, and we'll have some more conversations about how that was taken, how we nurse now compared to how we were nursed when we got to get paid as independent.
[42:16] You know, people with skills. Right? You know, that's a whole nother thing. But I just think it's a big loving disruption applies to a lot of things. And it's important to me that the core of the disruption comes from a space of love through a lens of love,
[42:30] Ttrough those rose-colored glasses. If we give those rose-colored glasses the power that they can have, not in a way that is unhealthy, but in a way that actually sees the reality that we can create from the way we think.
[42:46] Michelle: Yeah, I love that. I love how you change the perspective on rose- colored glasses. Because, you know, the first time I heard that term, I didn't, I didn't know what it was.
[42:56] And I think I asked my mom and she said, you know it's looking at, it's kind of like you're blind to all the bad stuff in the world.
[43:06] You just want to see the good.
[43:09] And I think that there's nothing wrong with seeing good.
[43:15] And it's also okay to know that there are bad things going on in the world, but choosing to see good, not ignoring the bad, but just putting a positive spin on it, I guess.
[43:32] And a lot of people listening could say, wow, she is really looking through those rose-colored glasses right now.
[43:40] Angie: I feel like I dodged that question earlier that I did not mean in any way to dodge and I'm glad you brought it back. Can I ask you again for. Well, if I could come back to your important question about let's elevate the truth that the burnout is happening, the bullying is happening, the underpaidness is happening.
[44:01] I mean the toxic culture, the absolute zero trust, all of that is absolutely happening. And like I could not, I don't know how to support that more. You know, like I'm in it.
[44:13] I'm coaching the very people that are suffering every day at every level. At every level. When I go and teach, when I go and keynote, it is all about that.
[44:24] I'm like, tell me, like I am very interactive with my audiences and I'm like, tell me, what are you frustrated about? Guess what? Nobody will do.
[44:32] I mean, you know, who will raise their hand In a room full of leaders, can you guess who will raise their hand?
[44:40] Michelle: Probably the staff nurses. I don't know.
[44:45] Angie: You would hope. That would be a hope. First of all, staff nurses aren't invited to those.
[44:49] So yeah, so staff staffing is, you know, not even staffing isn't sent to things. I mean, rarely is staffing like, like bedside staff isn't sent to growth opportunities.
[45:01] You know, it's your EDS, sure, your middle management, they get to go sometimes. But what I'm thinking about is an up when. So one of the most recent times I did a keynote and there's one hundred and fifty people in there from organizations all over the country and they're all in some space of leadership.
[45:20] And so if that question and when that was question was asked, the seniorist of the leaders answered the question and that was a test and I didn't talk about it until later.
[45:31] But you know, no one's even in that space really wants to talk about their frustrations. Right? Because it's a trust issue.
[45:39] So I mean, and when I'm there and I'm teaching like in a workshop setting. I'm teaching about effective communication skills. I'm teaching about self awareness first, always.
[45:49] Because we cannot continue to be finger pointers or shit's never going to happen. It will never ever happen if we're always fighting, you know, if we're not part of the problem or we're not part of the solve.
[46:00] So yeah, I just want to really clarify that I, I know I feel the pain. I am a huge feeler empathetically. I would not be doing this if I didn't think someone needed a champion to say what the F is happening?
[46:16] This cannot go on any longer. And that is the disruption piece. But it does come from an understanding for me. I'm going to show up to what I think is well rounded.
[46:31] I'm going to show it because I can't influence someone if I'm pointing a finger. If my husband comes in to a frustrated discussion and he's big and he's pointing a finger, but in with his energy, yeah, wow, dude, that's my boundary.
[46:48] I am out. Or I'll sit there in a cower. This isn't really going to happen. But like in a situation where leadership, you know, I'm like coward, but you know, like people don't get to do that.
[46:58] I can do that in my, in my relationship with my husband. I can stand up for myself and I can say, hey, listen, I can manage that. But if I have a person that I'm being controlled by, really in a corporate setting, if I have a leader, for instance, who is not cool to me, that I feel is communicating with me in a way verbally or nonverbally, that makes me shut down, that I feel shut down, I don't that I can have a genuine authentic response to that, I can contribute, then I'm not gonna.
[47:35] Right? And that's the reality. That's what's happening every day, all day. And even when the leader has coaching or is in, gets to be one of the ones that goes to these trainings quarterly, if it is not something that is practiced all the time as an organizational initiative, like here's what we're doing, we meet such and such, we check in.
[48:03] I mean, it's not hard and it's not complicated. It adds less than 4% to the workload. Workload of the organization and the ROI on it is humongous. But that's what's happening.
[48:15] You're right, is every single day people just can't wait to get the hell out. Most people are looking for a way out. My daughter is almost, she's 39 years old.
[48:25] Just turned 39. She's been. Had her when I was 18. Been a mom a long time.
[48:32] She's been in, you know, several different learning or leading positions. She's an excellent, excellent nurse and has left. You said earlier the ones that are good nurses, it's not even always, although my daughter was an excellent nurse in so many cases.
[48:47] What I see, Michelle, is that they can be good nurses. They don't even have to be great nurses. They're just good nurses.
[48:55] But if they raise their hand, yes, they'll take them. But what's the problem now? I mean, that was a problem even then, right? Tell me what you think. People earlier on, like, we're done with this, we blew that out the water.
[49:10] That's not happening. Rarely are people raising their hands to say, I mean, unless they're in an organization that they re. And there are those organizations that are doing really, really well with their culture, right?
[49:21] Where people feel like they can still do this, but raising their hand to take that leadership position, which I don't. In my experience, very little of that is happening. But if they're asked to step into a leadership role, if you're asked to do something more people are so desperate to feel appreciated, to feel seen that many times, they will take it and they will believe that the promise of support, the promise that you'll be able to make a difference only to get there and it's just a different day.
[49:55] It's the same thing, a different day because they are ill equipped with themselves or ill equipped to support the people that serve them. And this is not to say they're bad people, that they don't care, that they're not good leaders with great intentions and that they're not doing anything good.
[50:14] They are. It just can't be a little tiny drop like we talked about.
[50:19] And I could use my wedding, my marriage all day long. And I do for analogies, it can't be a quick fix. Just doesn't work like that.
[50:27] Michelle: Yeah. And unfortunately, that's the perception. You know, working 36 years, 40 years in the same hospital, 36 years as a nurse, like I saw it so many times and I saw the senior leadership fail
[50:43] these nurses who were amazing nurses, amazing people. And then when they stepped into that role and got no support, what did the staff see, over and over again? They saw this person who was, you know, completely spinning their wheels, who was doing the best that they could for the people that they were serving.
[51:04] And then, you know, in a couple of years, totally burnt out. And what does the staff say? Another one bites the dust. Okay, who's going to be the next one to step up?
[51:15] And, you know, it's sad because these people are amazing people, and they just didn't get the leadership mentoring, the training, the coaching that could have made them great leaders as well as great nurses.
[51:40] And that's a failure on the senior management's part.
[51:45] I want to go back to the rose-colored glasses because I was thinking about a friend of mine who's a nurse and still practicing as a nurse, even though she's retirement age and she could retire.
[51:56] And, you know, I've worked with this person for decades, and she is keenly aware of all of the bullshit that goes on in institutions.
[52:09] She's been a victim of bullying.
[52:12] I could go on and on, but she's a stellar nurse. And how does she do it? How does she keep it together? We've asked her, you know, how do you not buy into all this bullshit going on around you?
[52:30] All the staffing crises, all the leadership crises? And, you know, she says, I have one focus. When I get there to work that day, I focus on my patient and how I'm going to provide for them and how I'm going to communicate with the physicians, with my coworkers, with the families.
[53:03] She gets like the most feedback.
[53:06] You know, the families give her the most accolades. She's gotten the Daisy Award, like all these things, but she knows about all this crap in the background, this noise, but she doesn't let it affect her care.
[53:24] And I think that's absolutely stellar that she's worked in this space for decades and even through the pandemic, I mean, if that could make anybody burn out, it, you know, it made a lot of us burn out and leave the great resignation and all of that.
[53:44] But she's still there, and she still absolutely loves what she does. She's not blind to all the BS going on, but she doesn't let it affect her bottom line in the care that she provides.
[54:00] And I think that is amazing.
[54:04] Angie: It is more than amazing. I would love to know her. I would love to ask her so many questions without knowing her.
[54:17] The honest truth is like, okay, I want to ask her questions. I want to ask her, you know, what she does for her self care.
[54:26] Does she do things like that? That I encourage my clients to do as far as like. And any, any person that wants to experience some joy in life and have an easier time of experiencing more joy versus pain.
[54:40] You know, do you take care of yourself? What do you do to take care of yourself? Do you meditate? Do you pray? What's your support system look like?
[54:49] You know, what kind of books do you read? Do you read? You know, things like that. Because those usually are present for someone. And then the next thing I would say Michelle is we have
[54:59] the opportunity to have more.
[55:02] You don't have to tell me her name, but more of her. What an opportunity cost we have. What is that like? What a waste of beautiful human beings that aspire to be and to have,
[55:17] to understand their own capacity to do that. Right? Because she's where we started. She's one person that emulates the way she lives her life every day.
[55:29] And if people don't know how to do that and they see her every day, because I'm going to give you an example, there is absolutely a great possibility. No, not her fault.
[55:40] She should. I love it. So no reflection on anything about that. But being a person that doesn't have the self-awareness or the capacity currently to live and serve the way that your friend is doing, There may be people around her that are looking at her going I could never do that.
[55:59] She's just better than me. I suck. Oh my God. The guilt, the self-hatred builds and builds and builds and builds. I have had nurse clients that have called me on the phone through really hard times that I've given permission to do so that have cried to me on the phone because if a real elevated experience where they were doing training, they were onboarding someone and they, they hated the feelings were so strong that they hated this person that they were training.
[56:32] And then what the worst part of it is dually they were hating themselves at the same time. Right? I feel hatred for this person. But we know and she intuitively knew that that really was reflecting on how much she hated herself for being that way.
[56:48] To feel those feels right? And no outlet, thank God. And actually the truth is I was doing that pro bono as a friend of a friend when she was really going through something so she wouldn't have had access to me in a normal circumstance.
[57:02] So you know, we cannot duplicate your friend.
[57:08] She doesn't know how to duplicate herself. That's who she is. She could, but she could mentor and you mentioned mentorship. Now let's get real about mentorship. This is why we have to keep talking about.
[57:18] And so rose-colored glasses versus loving disruptor glasses or whatever we want to call them. You know, mentorship sounds great. Sounds great is great.
[57:31] Not enough of it. Because you know why mentorship is not paid and who has time for it? I mean, once that I'm talking to, I mean, talk to me if you got, if you, y'all know people that are like, yep, raising my hand, I'm just going to be this pro bono mentor that I'm just going to show up and I will take 10 people a month to men, you know, I don't know, whatever, you know, I think that that's been tried and I think hopefully it's being, it's successful somewhere, but somebody's probably getting paid somewhere along the line for a, for a real meaningful change in an impactful way.
[58:07] One person is amazing and it's always impactful. And I believe in the ripple effect of what one person's mindset shift can do. Absolutely. Teach it all day long. There's an urgency now though.
[58:19] And to those that have great power, have great responsibility, coming first full circle, you have an, a petri dish of greatness that could be, or let's just say goodness. Okay, let's just say a petri dish full of goodness.
[58:34] You're either going to grow it or you're going to freaking kill it.
[58:38] You know, and the opportunity is so ripe for the Pickens. You know, people are so ready and so asking, so want it, so deserve it, whatever it is. Let's just talk about it.
[58:52] I'm not saying, obviously I can't be the only coach or trainer, you know, for millions of people. There's plenty of us that are saying just let's have a conversation.
[59:03] Michelle: Thankfully that you're out there and that you're having these conversations because I think there's so much opportunity for, there's just so much pent up frustration and really the need to talk to somebody that gets us.
[59:29] And I think that's so important and funny. This person that I was referring to, she has turned down over the years every single opportunity, every ask by management to mentor people.
[59:48] I don't want to say legitimate, but in a professional role, you know, like you're going to mentor this person and she's like, no, but she is the person on the unit that everybody goes to.
[01:00:02] She is like the strongest mentor, but she just doesn't want to do it, you know, professionally and.
[01:00:10] Angie: Yeah.
[01:00:11] Michelle: Yeah.
[01:00:12] Angie: Because that's being used by. And again, I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus, but let's look at it for what it is. The elephant in the room.
[01:00:20] Michelle: Yeah.
[01:00:20] Angie: That is them recognizing greatness, recognizing the influence she has. And I don't want to pay you, so can you just do this little program that we're going to implement? No.
[01:00:31] Michelle: Yeah.
[01:00:32] Angie: I cannot.
[01:00:33] Michelle: Yeah. So, yeah. Wonderful person. And I mean, I think probably the next 10 years she'll still be working and she'll still be amazing.
[01:00:47] Well, I want to talk about senior living and what you do in that space that interests me.
[01:00:55] Angie: Oh, yay. Well, I think it's important that it begins to interest everyone if I have a say about it. Right? Like if we take a second and I have my understanding and my awareness around senior living and all the parts of it, in particular memory care, have grown so much over the last year.
[01:01:15] And I do associate that with my association with Think Tank. James Lee, Nicole Will, all the wonderful people that were involved in Think Tank for me last year, I'm going again this year again in particular memory care.
[01:01:30] But it's something that we all need to look at. I mean, I'm 57 years old. My mom is 78 years old. I pray she doesn't all of a sudden have poor health where she needs to be in a community.
[01:01:46] There's just a lot of stories. It is.
[01:01:50] I don't even know how to say. I am glad that I'm here to raise awareness and to support the people that are serving the people that we love in those communities.
[01:02:00] They are the ones forgotten. Michelle. Now I'm going to cry.
[01:02:06] I serve all spaces of nursing and I have been able to have the opportunity to speak and train and coach in all the different spaces. The one that I've chosen to talk to and with most often is I found my,
[01:02:22] Because this is where I started in nursing, is in a skilled nursing unit and found myself back here and I'm, I'm grateful for it. In many ways they're the low hanging fruit for the work that I do because it, it's such a desperate.
[01:02:36] You would think I described to people health, healthcare, like hospital care, their skin is like this thick right now. The skin of the mind is like this thick in senior living.
[01:02:50] It's not great, but it's better. So it's more like this because they're so desperate because regular folks outside of being in this every day have no idea.
[01:03:03] I said a few months ago, I have got to start taking this to outside of the small space that I've been speaking in, which is LinkedIn. Now recently I'm moving my things too.
[01:03:13] And I have two podcasts. One of them moved. So they're going to try to get out more socially in other platforms because the regular public who has a mom or a dad or a sister or brother or a child, whatever that is going to need the care within senior living.
[01:03:31] They need to know. They need to know. Or in a hospital also, they need to know. But as to your question about senior living, I'm happy I'm here.
[01:03:42] They are the forgotten folks as far as nursing, CNAs. To the next level. To the next level. And again, I will bring that back to. And I think this was within our conversation, Michelle, or maybe it was in yesterday's several conversations.
[01:03:57] You know they are women.
[01:04:01] 90%. I think that the stat for nurses is like 97% of nurses are women. And certainly in senior living, it's high. Don't quote me on that. It's just high. So in senior living,
[01:04:14] They're women. And then on top of that, it's the aging community.
[01:04:20] Both of those dynamics or demographics are not valued. And so they don't. They've notoriously not had what they needed and they're not paid attention to. So I just, like I said, my friend who
[01:04:37] is older, who had that episode not too long ago, there was no one that could take her. She went to the hospital right away with her problems, her challenges at the immediate time.
[01:04:49] And there was no one, nowhere where she could go because she was combative and no one was trained to be able to take that. Understandable, right? I understand that we should be better staffed.
[01:05:02] And this could be a memory. This could be a person with dementia. She didn't happen to have dementia. That was her bipolar disease. But someone could come into the hospital setting within with dementia and be behaving like that.
[01:05:14] What do we do? Well, we're understaffed. Nobody, not enough people are trained in how to do that. And no one would take her because of those two things. She was combative, not enough people to take care of her.
[01:05:24] So you know what they did? They sent her home again. This could be a dementia patient, which is senior care. I'm working with these people all the time.
[01:05:32] They sent her home. Terrible situations. And plug do a little quick plug for. It's not just the nurses the CNAs, only the nurses, the CNAs, all of the people that are, make senior living run all those spaces.
[01:05:48] But it's also the families. So I'm really happy to be expanding what I get to do to families of people that are caring, you know, the people that are caring, helping to care for their loved one, someone that has dementia or some form of it, that or at home care.
[01:06:09] So that's a space of senior living, right? Home health care and taking care of their family. The stress level, the suicide level, the depression, all the things is at an all time high again for me.
[01:06:23] I can't solve the world's problems in one day, but I will continue to speak up on behalf of and to advocate for. We have to provide the services for these people because you know, in the big picture, we're paying for it as a country.
[01:06:40] I mean, if it's not hit you yet personally, it 100% will in some fashion.
[01:06:46] We have to take care of our bedside people, our middle bedside people and our upper bedside people, because it all comes down to that, if that makes sense.
[01:06:56] Michelle: Yeah, it's really sad that that's a forgotten community. First of all our elderly and then the nurses and the nurses aides that work in that community.
[01:07:10] My very first job as a nurse's aide when I was 16 years old was in a nursing home and I absolutely loved it. I thought it was the best job ever.
[01:07:25] But what made me leave and go to acute care was the nurses. The nurses were so burnt. They were so burnt and they were so mean. And of course, you know, being a 16 year-old, I had no idea what was on their plate.
[01:07:47] But I had friends and family that were saying you don't need to work in that space, you need to get into acute care. That's where everything is happening.
[01:07:59] Angie: Better nurses, better nurses are there, right?
[01:08:03] Michelle: Yes, exactly.
[01:08:04] Angie: Just average. Mediocre maybe. Okay. They're just, you know, whatever. They're not smart, they're not whatever.
[01:08:12] Michelle: Yeah. And they'll treat you better. So that was very sad because I absolutely love that job. And you know, I did like the job when I moved to acute care too, but I just loved the people and the population and, you know, that's something that as I age, I turned 60 this year, you know, and it's on my mind.
[01:08:36] It's like, what's my life going to be like in the next 10 years, 20 years, God willing. You know, my mom's 84.
[01:08:45] My dad passed away a few years ago. She lives in the town with us.
[01:08:51] She has four kids that live in this town. We're all nurses, and she's in an assisted living for mobility issues. Thankfully, she doesn't have any dementia issues or anything like that, but we've got to see it firsthand.
[01:09:09] And the facility she's in is amazing. And we've met with all the leadership, the senior leadership, and everything is really great. So we're very blessed in that realm. But I know that we're an outlier.
[01:09:26] I know that it's not that way everywhere.
[01:09:29] So, yeah, we're going to have to change that. And thankfully, you're in that space. And though you are one person, Angie, you're one amazing person.
[01:09:44] And I'm thankful that you're here. I'm thankful that you're guiding nurses, leadership, CEOs, everybody that comes to you for coaching and speaking.
[01:09:58] And I just thank you for everything that you're doing.
[01:10:01] Angie: Thank you, Michelle. Thank you for this space.
[01:10:05] So good to support one another, to talk about things that people need to hear it, because it does be. And you need to hear it, right? I need to hear it like we're doing it, but we need to have each other because it does feel lonely.
[01:10:17] We do get in those spaces of, am I making a difference? You know, is anyone hearing me?
[01:10:23] There are a lot of good things happening with a lot of organizations, and we just have to keep moving forward and asking people to be willing to think differently.
[01:10:33] Michelle: Yes. And that's what you're doing, and I appreciate it. And I thank you for being my guest today. And now I'm going to ask you what I asked Susan at the end of our conversation.
[01:10:46] Is there someone you recommend as a guest on this podcast?
[01:10:49] Angie: Oh, my gosh, yes. You know who I just thought of the first. I'm going to say that there are so many. I could give you 50 people right now. The very first.
[01:10:57] That's the only reason that. Well, not the only reason I'm gonna go with her, but she popped up right away. Is Sherry Kitchens. Have you already had Sherry on?
[01:11:03] Michelle: No.
[01:11:04] Angie: So we're talking about senior living. Sherry is brilliant and you'll love her. Okay, brilliant.
[01:11:14] Michelle: Introduce us. That'll be amazing. I just wrote her name down.
[01:11:19] Angie: Okay. She's not a nurse, though.
[01:11:22] Michelle: That's okay. Yeah. I was challenged by my listeners and some of my guests to go outside my comfort zone and interview people that are not nurses.
[01:11:36] And so, yeah, so I Just interviewed a fire chief so that's really exciting.
[01:11:42] Angie: Yeah.
[01:11:43] Because I was way horophoria because I'm my fireman chief and I have a whole family of. My mom was a nurse, a hospice nurse. My sister's a nurse. I'm in all healthcare people environment.
[01:11:54] That's like the two, like, you know, wow. SA nurses environment.
[01:12:00] Michelle: Yeah. That was way outside my comfort zone. But I had a lot of fun interviewing him. So, yeah, put Sherry and I in contact. And where can we find you, Angie, if people want to get in contact with you?
[01:12:14] Angie: We'll definitely find me on LinkedIn @High Performance Nursing, Angie Gray. My website is highperformancenursing.com, so both of those places are great. You can email me. I'm changing my email, so don't do that.
[01:12:30] Just find me on my website. I'd love to get to know your audience in any way I can. I can serve and move the needle. That'd be great.
[01:12:38] Michelle: I love it.
[01:12:38] Angie: Thank you so much for having me. We can tell people that you're in your closet right now because you're freezing. It's when we first jumped on and I didn't know we weren't doing video and you're in your closet.
[01:12:49] I thought, she's awesome. Who cares? Well, I never care, clearly, because you can see that probably dirty dish.
[01:12:56] Michelle: It's beautiful back there. I love it.
[01:12:59] Angie: Thanks. Thanks. I'm at my kitchen table, which is my office, but that is my first impression of you. Michelle is like, oh, she's so pretty. And look, she's in her closet.
[01:13:07] Michelle: You're so sweet.
[01:13:08] Angie: All right. Awesome.
[01:13:10] Michelle: Yes. I'm all huddled up in my closet.
[01:13:13] Well, this has been a really fun conversation today, Angie. And I've learned so much about you and what you do, and I just encourage nurses that are listening to reach out and talk.
[01:13:26] That's awesome. Well, you know, we're at the end, so the last five minutes, we do this fun piece called the Five Minute Snippet. It's for our audience to see the off duty side of Angie.
[01:13:39] So are you ready to play?
[01:13:42] Angie: Oh, gosh. Okay. Yes.
[01:13:44] Michelle: It's super fun. Okay, let me get your questions.
[01:14:29] Angie: Okay.
[01:14:30] Michelle: Convince me to live in Iowa.
[01:14:32] Angie: Oh, well, it's beautiful. I'm looking out right now in November, and colors are beautiful in Iowa. You can see as far as the eye can see. It's fields, and it's either green or gray blues or brilliant blues.
[01:14:46] It's all the most beautiful colors in Iowa. And you just feel. Iowa just feels, like, very homey, I think there's nothing like snazzy. It's just beautiful. It's just really beautiful.
[01:14:59] Michelle: I love it. It sounds awesome. And I love that you use the word snazzy. That's from my generation. I love that word.
[01:15:08] Angie: Not you, Michelle. So, yeah, snazzy. Bringing it back.
[01:15:12] Michelle: Okay. Favorite classic rock band or song?
[01:15:17] Angie: Oh, well, Led Zeppelin. I mean. Oh, well. And then a favorite song, one that just popped up. I do love Free Falling, Tom Petty. Yeah. Don't get me started. I have another.
[01:15:30] I have a list of 50, but that's kind of my genre. I do love a lot.
[01:15:36] Michelle: That's great. Okay. Would you rather live in a world without music or books?
[01:15:43] Angie: Oh, I hate that question.
[01:15:49] And I want to ask more questions, but I know that's not the point.
[01:15:54] Music or books? Oh, no, I would rather live without books. That kills me. That kills me.
[01:16:02] Michelle: It's hard. Yeah.
[01:16:05] Angie: I'm a reader so that kills me. Okay.
[01:16:08] Michelle: Okay. Summer or winter?
[01:16:10] Angie: Winter.
[01:16:11] Michelle: Really? What are winters like there in Iowa?
[01:16:15] Angie: Cold. But I'm a cold plunger. I love a cold plunge. And so I can't wait for our first snow. And, you know, it just depends. Like, this has been crazy how warm it's been now, but it can get, you know, it can get 40 below.
[01:16:28] We can get, you know, 8ft of snow. It gets cold. I live out on an acreage, so it's windy. And I love that, too.
[01:16:38] If my body language. If they could see me, see, I'm already, like, cozying up. I love a hunker-down. I love a hunker-down day. So, you know. Yeah, I'm a cold girl.
[01:16:45] Michelle: Man, power to you. Cold plungers. My sister does that. My daughter does that.
[01:16:53] They're trying to get me to do it. And I'm just like, I don't like being cold.
[01:16:58] Angie: Never go back. I just got done doing it in a Colorado mountain creek and I got to do it in the Pacific Ocean and it was great.
[01:17:06] Michelle: Okay, favorite item on a fine dining restaurant menu.
[01:17:14] Angie: Like I frequent there? A fine dining really good roll. Is that a fine dining at its finest right there? I just want a nice roll.
[01:17:25] Michelle: Nice, pillowy.
[01:17:29] Angie: Coming back at you.
[01:17:31] Michelle: There you go. Picture of Angie, a snazzy roll.
[01:17:35] Angie: Yeah.
[01:17:35] Michelle: Okay, we're in your home and there's a picture on your wall of your favorite travel destination. Where is it and who is in the picture?
[01:17:45] Angie: Well, I mean, my actual picture on my wall is Alaska because I haven't been there yet and I want to go there.
[01:17:52] But my favorite place to go that we go every all the time is we have a cabin on a lake in Minnesota. Sounds fancy. It's just very simple. But that would be it.
[01:18:01] It would be all of our seven kids and three grandkids on our boat on our lake in Minnesota.
[01:18:08] Michelle: Sounds idyllic. That's amazing.
[01:18:10] Angie: It is. Okay.
[01:18:12] Michelle: I'm out of my comfort zone when I'm blank.
[01:18:18] Angie: Out of my comfort zone when I have to,
[01:18:23] Oh, when I played games like this mostly. But when I am asked to, like, remember. So it's actually a miracle that I can remember any names of anything. So when I'm asked, like, what's your favorite band?
[01:18:37] What's your favorite name of your song? I'm like, I don't know, but it goes like this and I can sing it for you.
[01:18:43] So I'm out of my comfort zone when I'm asked for details about that kind of stuff, even though I'm detail oriented. Not about that.
[01:18:50] Michelle: Oh, that's so wonderful to hear. I've interviewed so many high-powered people, Angie, like yourself, and the five-minute snippet seems to just bring people to their knees.
[01:19:03] They're so uncomfortable with it and I'm like, I don't get it. It's so much fun. But yeah, it's kind of like being on the spot, right?
[01:19:12] Angie: It is. In fact, that is a part of. I don't mean to give things away, but it is part of my upcoming podcast that hasn't dropped yet is asking the this or that questions.
[01:19:23] Just a couple of them.
[01:19:23] Michelle: Yeah, so much the ones I love most.
[01:19:26] Angie: Yeah, they're great.
[01:19:27] Michelle: Well, let's give a plug to your podcast. Tell me about it.
[01:19:31] Angie: Well, the one that's out right now is called Sister Friends and that is with my best friend in the whole world and her name is Rashonda Young and you can find her on LinkedIn too.
[01:19:40] She's like, you know, most of the time I'm like, how am I friends with the people I'm friends with? How you know, like she has, I mean, yes, I have experience in blah, blah, but like she's spoken for Congress.
[01:19:53] She has spoken on stages with Michelle Obama. She is starting the first.
[01:19:59] Actually, I think it's the second, don't quote me on that, the second black woman-owned bank ever.
[01:20:06] Like on and on with her accolades and her credibility and her knowledge and expertise and amazing humanness. But anyway, we have been talking about doing a podcast forever and although she comes from the world of finance and I come from the world of healthcare, nursing, it's a very unique combination.
[01:20:24] And we talk about in this podcast how everything is relationships. We are both entrepreneurs and so it's been really cool. We dropped our first podcast which is right now on YouTube at sister friends at YouTube.
[01:20:38] They will be on Spotify at the end of the day today actually. So that's fun. And Apple.
[01:20:44] So we wanted to intentionally bring out drop the first podcast before the election. We felt as women and probably our audience will primarily will be women, we're speaking about women things as women leaders and empowering women, all the things to do with relationships.
[01:20:59] But we wanted to get our first two episodes out pre-election and really have again the elephant in the room conversation if we cannot forge change or influence change if we are not holding safe space for those really tough conversations.
[01:21:13] So we did that and then our third episode came out yesterday and that is post-election conversations and a book we're reading called Invisible Women, and we talk more about that the rest of this month and into December.
[01:21:26] So that's that podcast called Sister Friends. We would love you to listen, Michelle, and follow and like and share and then I'm not going to tell you the name of the the next one, but I will be sharing what that is.
[01:21:38] But please do look for that if you want to find me on LinkedIn is where I would be watching for that podcast and me talking about it. And the truth of the matter is I have a couple of names.
[01:21:49] I've got my episodes recorded, but not the intro because I'm not sure about the name. I'm still like praying on. Okay. Waiting on this name. You know, it's a big deal, right?
[01:22:02] Yeah. So. But thank you. So two podcasts and it's really fun. I bet you love it.
[01:22:09] Michelle: I really do. Yes. And yeah, I'm going to listen, so I did hear your clip yesterday of your episode three, and I thought this is a great conversation.
[01:22:20] Michelle: And I'll put that in the show notes so people can find the Sister Friends podcast.
[01:22:24] Angie: It's very cool. Thank you. I'm very honored.
[01:22:27] Michelle: Yeah, you did great, Angie, with the five-minute snippet.
[01:22:31] Angie: Thank you. Thank you. It was super fun. I love it. Here's the question that we, are we still recording?
[01:22:38] Michelle: Yeah.
[01:22:39] Angie: Oh, shoot. Then I'm not going to tell you because I'm using it, but I'll tell you after we're done recording the question that I. Cool, cool. Love it.
[01:22:47] Michelle: Okay, well, stay in the room and we'll say our goodbyes. And thank you so much for joining me today, Angie. It's been a real pleasure.
[01:22:55] Angie: Thank you, Michelle.
[01:22:56] Michelle: Take care.