Cannabis Nurse, Ashley Wynn-Grimes

[00:00] Michelle: Do you ever come across someone on Instagram who is meant to teach you something? For me, that person is Ashley Wynn-Grimes, also known as The Cannabis Nurse. Ashley is the owner of Cannabis Nursing Solutions, LLC, where she teaches nurses the ins and outs of the cannabis industry. Cannabis Nursing is a nursing specialty recently recognized by the American Nurses Association. Through Ashley, I learned about where cannabis nurses can work, who their patients are, and how they can advocate for cannabis use within their communities. Ashley is a pioneer in this field and established cannabis patient care programs in Maryland where she lobbies for its use. Ashley is also the author of the book Stigmatized. Through it, she sheds light on her path to finding freedom through entrepreneurship and building a brand around cannabis medicine. The research is growing on medicinal cannabis use, and the opportunity for nurses to enter this field is great. So if Ashley's page shows up on your feed, consider yourself lucky, because you're about to learn something.  In the five-minute snippet: We're going back, wayyyyyback. 
Well, hi, Ashley, welcome to the podcast.

[01:42] Ashley: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

[01:45] Michelle: I'm really glad you're here, too. I saw your page on Instagram, and I was immediately intrigued. I said, what is cannabis nursing? I didn't even know that was a thing. I have to know more. So I asked you if you would come on, and you so graciously said yes. So here we are today, and you're going to educate me as well as I'm sure a lot of my guests on what cannabis nursing is. So let's just get started, and why don't you tell us how you got started in the cannabis industry?

[02:22] Ashley: Yeah. So it's so funny, I just made a post on social media, on Instagram the other day today, just kind of reflecting on the fact that I've been doing it since 2018.

[02:34] Michelle: Wow.

[02:35] Ashley: Yeah. And so as of 2023, I think it was September of 2023, our American Nurses association just acknowledged cannabis nursing as a specialty, which is super exciting. But I started off in this space before it was even called cannabis nursing, or it was in its early, in its infancy, I'll put it that way, where it was a bunch of us nurses who really felt passionate about making sure that patients had access to the plant and were well educated on, on plant medicine and were working with patients and, you know, just trying to make a difference in their lives. And for me, it just started off with simple consults, you know, being able to help people to incorporate cannabis into their life as a medicine, as opposed to something that they would do on a more recreational consideration. And it just kind of turned into what it is today. And so currently. Well, I guess I'll go back a little bit in time still, and talk about the fact that I was consulting patients independently for free. Independently as a paid service. I partnered with dispensaries. Over time, I had, at one point, I think I had five dispensaries that I was working with and their patients. And then I kind of spiraled into educating other nurses, healthcare professionals, and healers on how to incorporate cannabis into their practice so they can better serve their patients. And so that's been the trajectory of the past six years. I mean, the short, consolidated version. I'm sure you'll have more questions, but, yeah, that's pretty much how I started.

[04:23] Michelle: Wow, that's. That's really interesting. And what was your history prior to your history in nursing? Did you know, why did you get into nursing? What fields did you start out in?

[04:37] Ashley: So, I started off as a med surg nurse. I was one of the people who fell victim to becoming a med surg nurse because it'll take you everywhere in your career?

[04:47] Michelle: Okay.

[04:49] Ashley: And then I got my master's degree, and I ended up in hospital leadership. I worked a transition to practice program. I then moved on to corporate hospital and performance improvement and project management. So I had a pretty wide range of experiences. The only, like, I didn't do critical care. That's probably one of the few areas I have never worked. And I really, honestly, I don't know if I'd be good in critical care, but it's just been a regular nursing journey up until that point. The thing that changed for me was the fact that when I started working in that 14-hospital system, I was under a lot of pressure to perform, and it was very much financial incentives, and I just, it just was too much for me at that time. And I started dealing with burnout. I had made the six-figure marker in my mind that felt like it was all that I was supposed to do. So it just kind of felt like I didn't know what else to do. And to top it all off, I was the victim of cyber theft, and $15,000 was stolen out of my bank account. And so at that point, I ended up going to therapy because I knew I needed help, I needed some support, but it wasn't just I knew it wasn't just therapy that I needed. It was. I needed a whole, like, overhaul of what I considered wellness for myself because I think I've just been ignoring myself for the first ten years of my career. And then, you know, here I am, mom of two, and I'm like, wait a minute. You know, like, this terrible thing happened, saying what I'm feeling. I'm borderline depressed. My emotional intelligence is not working for me at this moment. You know, I have all this pressure to perform. You know, I had a project where I was supposed to save $1.4 million, and I only saved $1 million. And so the pressure of missing that 400k was a big deal to me in that moment. And so I started getting into yoga. You know, I started really trying to pay attention to myself, and that's when I kind of fell into this rabbit hole of mindfulness and holistic medicine. And the endocannabinoid system came up for me, and that's when I started learning more about cannabis medicine.

[07:14] Michelle: Wow, that's a lot. Yeah. Hearing you talk about, you know, being a victim of burnout and a victim of cyber theft, that's really heavy stuff. And I'm happy that you got the help that you needed. And so is that how your introduction into cannabis nursing kind of came about?

[07:34] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. So it was. So once I learned about the endocannabinoid system, that's when we went down the rabbit hole of what is this system? So, for context for everybody who's listening, it is the largest neuroreceptor system in the body, and it is the driving system that. It is responsible for homeostasis in the body. And when I say it, most people associate immediately go to just cannabis. Though cannabis does play a big role in supporting the endocannabinoid system. There are so many other things that can, too, and yoga is one of them. And so as I started to dibble and dabble in different practices, and I'll just stick with yoga because it's the most common. And the first thing that I got into, as I started to really dig into it, such profound moments that just from meditation, just from mindfulness, just from, you know, just being around people who, you know, were supporting my practice, that supported that endocannabinoid system. And then I started to research cannabis, and I was like, wait a minute. Everybody needs to know that cannabis is medicine and how it serves.

[08:50] Michelle: Wow. Yeah, that's. That was another one of my questions is, like, how did you learn about it? Was it just through getting involved in holistic medicine? Did you do any research? How did that come about?

[09:06] Ashley: It was primarily research, you know, really digging into the details at the time. In. I'm in Maryland and at the time, we just transitioned over into a medical program where we were starting to get dispensaries. Our first dispensaries were popping up. You know, it was very, very, very new in our state. And I was like, well, if our state is going to offer this to patients, nurses need to be involved with it. And so just researched and researched. And at the time, I was in performance improvement, quality improvement. So it was about, how do I organize this information in a way it's useful that we can do something with it. And so, yeah, that's literally how that worked. Like, now you can go online, you can Google stuff. You might find me if you google cannabis nursing. But back then, that wasn't a thing that you would Google. It wasn't too much out there. We did have an association then, but it was still very small. They were still trying to get their bearings together, but there weren't a lot of people who were claiming themselves to be cannabis nursings, or at least not, like, accessible on the World Wide Web. Right. Like, you couldn't just look them up.

[10:25] Michelle: Yeah. Well, okay, where can cannabis nurses work?

[10:31] Ashley: So that is a growing area. So doctors tend to want to have a cannabis nurse on board dispensaries like cannabis nurses. I generally don't advise on, like, job placement, because a lot of times, really, you show up as a cannabis consultant to some degree. And when people are looking for a cannabis consultant, sometimes they're not really, they don't know that they're looking for a nurse. But for me, it's about how cannabis nurses position themselves to be needed. And so I do look at it more from an independent, entrepreneurial standpoint because there's still a lot of growth that needs to happen in the space. Now, I do know a lot of nurses who are working for, you know, like, schools, and they're working for physician practices, and they might do holistic medicine, and it might include cannabis nursing, you know, that kind of thing. But I think where we are in the development of this specialty, I think we need to contribute to the development of the specialty, because, like I said, ANA just said a few months ago that it is a specialty. So now we're in a place where we need to, like, really show up and create things and build things. For me, the example is, you know, writing a book or starting the community that I started the HIGHalign tribe, but the sky's the limit on what you can create, what you can monetize, how you can make money in this space.

[12:03] Michelle: Yeah. I want to talk about your book, Stigmatized, and you were discussing that you're, you know, entrepreneurship, and you're an entrepreneur. You're the founder of Cannabis Nursing Solutions, LLC. So what do you do with nurses in that business?

[12:24] Ashley: So, Cannabis Nursing Solutions offers education. So I have a training course that walks people through how to conduct their own full-length consultation with a patient. So that's one aspect. But I also support them as they're transitioning. So a lot of nurses want to transition from the bedside. They're dealing with burnout, just like I was dealing with burnout. They know that there's more to healthcare, wellness, you know, the same way that I knew there was more to it. A lot of them are in transition. So we've created community around how do you begin that transition? How do you expand your perspective? What do you need to do as you build up your business considerations around just cannabis itself? Because it still is a Schedule One drug. Many nurses are worried about losing their licenses. You know, all of those things come up for them. So having that community to support them as they're going through this process is very much a spiritual journey. And, you know, essentially, I and others are there to support them through my business.

[13:32] Michelle: What if you want to be a cannabis nurse and you happen to live in a state that doesn't support cannabis use? How are you going to leverage yourself? And are you involved in any type of legislation, like changing legislation? Talk to that?

[13:54] Ashley: Yeah, for sure. So we have a scope of practice that supports us, just like we have a scope of practice in other areas and specialties. And so as long as we abide by that scope of practice, then we are protected. And essentially what it speaks to is more of our education hat how we can show up and support our patients, advocate on behalf of our patients, how we can, you know, allow this patient-driven medication to be managed. And so as long as we stay within that scope, then it shouldn't be a problem. Now, I will say I'm not oblivious to the fact that you know, we have our boards of nursing who, like, if, for example, you might talk about cannabis on a given day, somebody might make an assumption, and maybe, let's say they report you to your board of nursing. We do have guidelines through the NCSBN, National Council for State Boards of Nursing that also speak to the role of a cannabis nurse and as an advanced practice nurse and as a registered nurse, and, I believe an LPN to a licensed practical nurse. And so if you should end up in a situation like that, that's when those documents would become important. I do know in some states, they are a little bit, a little less accepting of those documents. It might be put back. I've heard stories of other nurses who have gone through some pretty tough situations in regard to our national council, I mean, our council for state boards of nursing, but I think it's very much state-specific. As far as my participation, I have done. I have not. This year, I've kind of taken a step back, but mostly because some of the other nurses in my community are taking a step forward, if that makes sense. And so I have submitted testimonial at our capitol. I have advocated, I have gone to legislative meetings, done all of those kind of things to support cannabis in different areas. And more specifically, I was on the guidelines committee to allow cannabis into our. To Maryland state schools, so that way children can have access to their medical cannabis without having to leave school grounds, parents not having to leave school, you know, the whole thing. And so that is an active document in our state where, you know, that I helped build. And it's well written, I think. But I think there's still a lot of work to do around education. And, you know, how do we inform our teachers, our staff, our parents, and even the school nurses who would potentially be offering this medicine to children?

[16:40] Michelle: Yeah, and I would think a lot of the education would be kind of removing the stigma, right?

[16:46] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. That's a big part of the education, because we have, you know, what we understand about cannabis is primarily dictated on the propaganda from, you know, the early 1900's. So there are a lot of false ideas that are embedded into our society that need to be removed. And for a lot of people, it causes fear. And some of the conversation is, how can we not be fearful of the conversations that need to be had around this plant? And so a big part of it is stigma. I think some of it can be based in science, but, like, let's just have open and honest conversations about maybe how cannabis has affected you personally, what your preconceived notions are. You know, there are a lot of people who have consumed cannabis in college and had a bad experience, maybe had a family member that might have been shunned or removed from the family because of their cannabis consumption. And so those thoughts stay in our minds forever. And very rarely do we get a chance to talk about them without being judgmental about it. And so that's kind of where I come in. I have conversations with people, people all the time, about what stigma is. And it's not just about cannabis, it can be about anything. There's stigma about, you know, if you're a woman, nurses deal with stigma. We are supposed to show up as superheroes when half the time we feeling burnt out anyway. So I think that there is an opportunity in society altogether for us to remove some of the stigma that keeps us trapped within our own thoughts.

[18:31] Michelle: Amen to that. So let's talk about the patients for a moment. Who are the patients that are coming to cannabis nurses? And what are they coming for? Why are they using cannabis?

[18:46] Ashley: So there are a lot of people that just use cannabis, and I like to call them patients too, even if they don't recognize that they're managing symptoms. Most of the patients that I'm referring to when I say that are usually dealing with things like insomnia, anxiety, social anxiety, things, depression, things along those lines. And sometimes they may not realize it, and a lot of times it's sourced in trauma. But then you have our more chronic conditions, epilepsy, chronic pain disorders, cancer patients. I can't think autoimmune disorders like those. Patients with those chronic conditions can manage symptoms with cannabis very often. And so those patients are more likely to go see a cannabis nurse because they're looking to manage a symptom. They're aware that there are symptoms that they want to treat and they want to relieve, and most likely have tried just about any and everything they can think of and feel like this is the last option available to them. I would love to see it where it's considered along with the rest of the treatment care planning, but that's generally what happens. So, for example, somebody who may be, and I'm going to use this example because there is a little bit of a preconceived notion that cannabis cures cancer. It does not, but it can manage a lot of symptoms related to the chemotherapy and radiation, for example, like nausea, some of the anxiety that comes along with being a long-term medical patient, sleeplessness or insomnia and pain, chronic pain, those are all things that show up in our chemo patients or our cancer patients very often. And because it is induced by the treatment itself, a lot of them don't want to take more medicine for the treatment of the cancer to begin with. So they'd rather try something a little bit more holistic or natural. So, a lot of times, at least from my experience, they get way better results than the pharmaceutical medications that they've been offered.

[20:54] Michelle: Yeah. I have found that to be true as a patient myself. So a lot of my listeners know my cancer story, but I had breast cancer in 2009 and had a mastectomy and all that, and went through chemo. And during chemo, I was experiencing nausea, of course, as many patients do. And my oncologist prescribed. I just remembered this when we were talking. He prescribed a synthetic THC called Marinol.

[21:28] Ashley: Yes.

[21:29] Michelle: And I didn't want to take it because, you know, of course, when he prescribed that, being a nurse, you know, I looked it up on the formulary, and one of the major side effects was having a bad trip. And I was like, you know, if chemo and cancer aren't a bad enough trip, like, I don't want to take another bad trip. Right. So I declined it, and I used the standard medications, which, you know, don't work that well and have other side effects. But the other thing is, a few years ago, I really began experiencing a lot of arthritis and, you know, went to my PCP. Oh, we need to put you on Celebrex. And so I did a round to that for a little bit. Didn't feel great on it, and, you know, just stuck to the regular Tylenol, and ibuprofen. But my nephew was the manager of a local dispensary, and so I started talking to him about, you know, do you have anything? And at this time, I really didn't want to. I didn't want a THC product. I had heard a lot of research on CBD and all the benefits of CBD. So, you know, I want high CBD, very low, or, you know, no THC. Because at that time, I was working as a nurse, and I was afraid, here's a stigma again, you know, afraid of testing positive for THC. And he found me a really good, high-quality CBD that really worked for me. But I have also used, like, a low THC product for insomnia because I'm also a chronic insomnia. So I think there's so many benefits. And, you know, I feel like by this point, cannabis has been pretty well researched in terms of using it for things that you described, like pain, nausea, insomnia. And I just don't know why more practitioners aren't going that route and saying, you know, maybe check with your local dispensary or maybe the practitioners themselves, educating themselves about how they can, how their patients can utilize cannabis for some of these ailments. Why do you think there's a disconnect? Does it have to do with stigma?

[24:06] Ashley: Yeah, I think a big part of it is the stigma, but I think the other part of it is that our healthcare system hasn't embraced it yet either. So one of the things that I help support is legislation here in Maryland for hospitals to get on board with. Now, you know, at this point in Maryland, we're adult use. We have, it's recreational, where anybody over the age of 21 can go and get their cannabis. But there are still a lot of medical patients that will use this and need it. And so an example is a young boy here who, he almost died because of his, I think he has an autoimmune disorder. And because of the autoimmune disorder, he couldn't eat. And it wasn't until he was able to take cannabis that he was able to begin eating and potentially get his feeding tube removed. Well, now years of remission because of the cannabis. Now he wants to get his feeding tube removed. But if he were to go into the hospital, they wouldn't let him have this medicine in there. It's because the hospital feels like they're going to get in trouble with the federal government by allowing him to do that. And so I think that's a big part of it because I think, you know, and we talked a little bit about it already. Education is a huge part of what needs to happen for nurses, and healthcare providers alike. But if our medical system, our health care system isn't on board with it, they're not going to facilitate the education. Right. And so, you know, and I think that's just unfortunate because, again, we're operating off of this false narrative that something, something bad or something wrong is going to happen. And, you know, and it's not even just cannabis. It's just even the way we look at people who are addicts, who are drug users, who may or may not have made bad decisions in their life that, you know, have found themselves in certain situations, like very often as soon as somebody says that they have taken something, you know, especially like when we're talking like heroin addicts, cocaine, you know, those kind of drugs, we're like, want to kind of dismiss them. We want to put them amongst this population of people that don't really qualify as human. And at the end of the day, you know, all of our patients are human regardless of whatever circumstance that they're, they're in. And I think as a whole, you know, our healthcare providers could do a better job in addressing our patients with less bias and a little bit more compassion.

[26:47] Michelle: Oh, I really believe that, too. We're just not very accepting. We're not very compassionate. Like you said, we had a lot of moms that were using it because of anxiety, because of insomnia. We had one mom who had sciatica really bad. So there's just, you know, I think exactly like you said, like, we're not there yet in healthcare. We're not ready to embrace, like, alternate therapies. You know, every time I think we are, we're just not. And that's really sad, because I think so many of our patients could benefit from alternative therapies.

[27:31] Ashley: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I also think that we need to get on board very quickly, because for us millennials and Gen Xers, we are the old people now.

[27:46] Michelle: That sounds so weird.

[27:49] Ashley: And we have a whole new population of adults that are coming, and they do not feel the same way we do. At all. At all.

[27:59] Michelle: Yeah.

[28:00] Ashley: I was talking to a college not too long ago, and they said to me, that the biggest issue we have on campus is cannabis consumption is not that they're using the cannabis, is that they're using the cannabis inside the building. So they're not practicing safe consumption habits, but they're not drinking like they once were. Like, they know that drinking is bad. It's toxic for them. They are a little bit more open to things like psychedelics and cannabis and other things. They are the vegans, and they're the people who are very mindful of what's going on in the world around them and very unapologetic about that fact. Like, they don't have any filters. They don't have any fear around this. And so while we're sitting there clutching our pearls about what we think about this and that, these kids are doing what they want.

[28:51] Michelle: Hmm. I love that visual 'clutch our pearls.' Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I've seen some more acceptance in the older community. You know, you're saying millennials and Gen Xers are the older ones now, and, you know, you're talking to a Baby Boomer, you know, and when I would go to these dispensaries and be standing in line and looking around, a lot of them were what I would classify as, like, little old ladies. A lot of them were, you know, older than me, maybe in their seventies. And, you know, it's just, I think that the face of the typical cannabis user is changing. We've all been scared by cannabis. I'm sure you've heard of Reefer Madness. I think, too, the cannabis of today is a little bit different than the cannabis of yesteryear, and you can certainly correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I think the grades of cannabis are a lot better. And I myself have never smoked cannabis. I use a sublingual THC product, like I said, for my arthritis, and it's very rare. I still don't use it regularly because I still am a little bit intimidated by it, I will say. And so I'll use the regularly regular therapy first, you know, heat and relaxation and stretching and, you know, ibuprofen and Tylenol before I use it, kind of as a last resort. And I don't think that's right. But I also think that there's some responsibility for each patient to kind of do their own research and find out a little bit more about what they could use it for and how they could use it and how it could help them. But how do you stay up to date on everything going on in the cannabis industry?

[30:54] Ashley: I'm just in it constantly around people who talk about it all day long.

[30:59] Michelle: Yeah.

[31:00] Ashley: So that's just me, obviously. I do my research, you know, reading the articles and things along those lines, too, but that's just part of my workflow, so it's not like I have to try to stay up to date, if that makes sense.

[31:13] Michelle: Yeah. Well, I'm wondering if you foresee a day when we're going to be hearing about nursing conferences about cannabis nursing, and continuing education credits about using cannabis in your practice. Do you think that we'll see a day soon when those things are more commonplace?

[31:35] Ashley: They exist, though, so even my training course used to offer contact hours, but I let it go last year because I wanted the freedom to update my content regularly. But there are quite a few programs out there that do offer contact hours. We do have cannabis nursing conferences, so the American Cannabis Nurses Association, Cannabis Nurses Network, are two organizations that offer yearly conferences. So, you know, there we exist. We're out here, we're doing the work. We have professional organizations, and, you know, just to kind of piggyback on the thought of the difference between what was and what wasn't, the evolution of the cannabis industry is, I don't know if it's necessarily different, but I think the variety is more precise. And, you know, what's in it, what's in your product. It can be lab-tested. You have multiple methods of consumption. There are patches, you mentioned sublingual which, good for you, kudos to you for even considering that. But there's patches, suppositories, there's tinctures, there's, you know, edibles. Like, the list goes on. You can do topicals. There are just so many different things that you can do with the cannabis plant. And I think that's part of the stigma, too, because people automatically assume cannabis is directly, like, it just means you're going to smoke a joint or something like that. It can come in pill form if you know, if you want to. And I think that there's a lot more space for us to recognize it as a medicine and not as a drug like we once did. Oh, and the other point I want to make is, even though you were saying that there's a little bit of a fear associated with when you take it, I'm of the school of thought as far as, like, management of cannabis consumption to try those other things out first. Anyway. Holistic healing. Holistic wellness requires a level of mindfulness, it requires a level of thoughtfulness that you can pay attention to. What is triggering what? Because when we're talking about the top three reasons why somebody would take cannabis, it would be anxiety, it would be insomnia, and it will be pain. Which one starts it? Is it the chicken or the egg?

[34:06] Michelle: Right, so that's so true. That's a great point that you made. And, you know, I. I have some. I think for me, there definitely is some fear around it, because I. First of all, I don't like taking medication in the first place, because I just don't like how many medications make me feel. And I actually have some. Some gummies in my cabinet right now that I have not taken yet, because when you eat something, you might feel the effect. You don't feel it right away. Right. There's a time when it has to get into your system and when you're digesting it and so forth. And so, for me, the gummies are kind of too unpredictable. That's why I chose the sublingual because I know. Okay, I know the mechanism, the mode of action is going to be pretty quick. Does that make sense?

[35:08] Ashley: Yeah, it makes perfect sense. So, yeah, the onset is quicker with sublingual versus edible, but the time is longer and edible than it is sublingual. So it'll stay in your body longer, right?

[35:23] Michelle: Yes. And that's the other thing that I'm like, you know, what if I do have. What if I don't feel good? Then I'm gonna not feel good for longer. Big scaredy cat. Ashley.

[35:36] Ashley: Oh, it's okay. It's okay. So, you know, I think the thing is, you know, I don't know if you've heard the mantra start low, go slow kind of thing. And again, I'm of the school of thought. Start super, super, super low. So if your gummy is ten milligrams, I will cut it up into four pieces. 2.5 milligrams of THC in that one gummy. Or however much is in the CBD, how much CBD it is. And that should be pretty below-perceptual for most people. But let's say if you're sensitive to it, like, you may feel something, but it won't be so much where you get overwhelmed by the experience. Experience, right?

[36:15] Michelle: Okay.

[36:16] Ashley: And if you have that super, super small dose and you're like, well, you know, I don't really feel anything. Oh. But my pain is better or it isn't better or whatever, you can consider taking a little bit more. You can consider pairing it with CBD, you know, because the race CBD to THC ratio does matter. So it's not all, like, people talk a lot about THC. Like, that's the demon in the cannabis plant. But CBD and THC work very, very well together, especially for pain.

[36:47] Michelle: Okay. Well, you're giving me the courage and hope that I might be able to do it right and not, you know, feel bad. So that's good. I'm keeping that in mind. Well, I want to talk about your book Stigmatized. So tell us kind of why you wrote it and. And what we can expect when we read it.

[37:11] Ashley: So Stigmatized was really just about the stigma. So at the time, I was trying to unbox myself. Like, you know, how we put ourselves into boxes. I'm a nurse, I'm a mom. And then it's like, you're the only these two things, because, like, nothing else really matters in life. And in that moment, I was really feeling like, you know, there is more to me than this. And I was trying to uncover it, but I feel like I was. The more that I dealt with the cannabis industry and kept hearing about the stigma, I started to realize more and more that this stigma was everywhere in all different perspectives, and it shows up in the way that we identify ourselves. And so the idea that I'm a mom, I'm a nurse, and that's it. That's like 50%. 50 50 is that. And that. So is there anything else more to me than that, and I put so much pressure on myself to show up in the way that you're supposed to show up as a mom or a nurse. I, you know, I think that contributed to my burnout at the, you know, in the job situation I was telling you about. And so part of it was really an expression of me trying to really organize who I am and what I am. The other part of it is helping other people to recognize through their own stories how they, too, are creating their own boxes and how they can free themselves from, you know, the things that keep us stuck. And so there's a lot of talk about resilience in there. There's a lot of talk about, you know, just what burnout is, how you can uncover burnout, how to integrate different life experiences. Because, you know, even though the job itself might be difficult, what is it? That's what other things in your life are making life difficult, that which is making the job more difficult. Like, there is an integration of self that needs to occur, and first thing you have to do is be able to identify what those things are, because a lot of us are just operating on, like, just that, that autopilot. We don't even recognize that. That's the reason why you might have this back pain from, you know, whatever because it's stress induced.

[39:34] Michelle: Yeah, I think there's just a huge movement right now in nursing and also just in our. In our culture to kind of figure out who you are, where you're going, what you're doing, what affects you, what you can do to kind of mitigate some of the stresses that we all have. Right. And I've talked a lot on the podcast about nursing identity, and I've talked a lot about my own struggles of feeling, like when I retired, that I've lost that nurse identity. I was certainly in a box, and it took a lot to kind of climb out of that box and be a more well-rounded person and realize that I'm a lot more than a nurse, and that's hard for a lot of people. And I don't know if that's, like, a generational thing, because I talk to a lot of nurses that are the same age as I am, and I feel like we feel that really strongly, whereas I see a lot of the younger generation of nurses coming up are way more well rounded, and they're like, yeah, I'm a nurse. That's great and everything, but I also do this and this and this and this. And, you know, I'm not going to let nursing just consume me?

[40:55] Ashley: Yeah. I think we talked a little bit while we were preparing for this, too. You know, when I transitioned from hospital work to entrepreneurship, I had to grieve. I literally had to figure out, who am I? And I think that's really how it all started. Just who am I if I'm not in a hospital? If I'm not walking through the doors of some hospital somewhere? Like, I had spent so much time, I mean, years, because I was a CNA, too, just going in and out of hospitals from job to job to job, and. And now, all of a sudden, I'm like, wait, we're not doing this anymore. And so, I mean, I cried for weeks.

[41:38] Michelle: Girl, I feel you. I did the same thing. I was like, what am I going to be when I grow up now? You know? And it's like, I'm still a licensed nurse. But just like you said when you were talking about going through the doors of the hospital, there's a comfort in that. There's a comfort in walking down the same halls that you've walked down for decades and, you know, seeing the same people and saying hi and chit-chatting and, you know, and then when it's. It's all gone from one day to the next, it can be really jarring if you don't have another kind of identity.

[42:20] Ashley: Yeah.

[42:21] Michelle: Yeah. So, I mean, I always just encourage nurses today to do something else besides nursing. And if you're not happy in your specialty, go to another specialty. Like, there are a lot of specialties in nursing, right? And you're one of them that is up and coming that I think a lot of people would be really interested in, because it's. It's fascinating. And before we close here, I was reading your newsletter on LinkedIn, your very strong presence on LinkedIn. And what can we find in your newsletter?

[42:57] Ashley: So, cannabis education, holistic healing, wellness topics, how to deal with burnout, resilience, empowerment as a nurse, empowerment as a woman. Those are generally the things that I speak of most often. And in addition to that, spirituality is definitely a big part of what motivates me generally. So that is also included in some of the nuance of my writing.

[43:26] Michelle: It's great. I was reading a lot of them, and I just found them to be so engaging and informational, I like your style of writing, so bravo on that. And how can. How can people subscribe to your newsletter?

[43:41] Ashley: So you can find me on LinkedIn. You can just type my name in. Ashley Wynn-Grimes. Or you can follow me on Instagram @cannabisnursingsolutions. And I'm always open. Email me if you want to at Cannabisnursingsolutionsmail.com.

[44:01] Michelle: Sweet. I have all those links, so I will put them in the show notes. So the next question, if you feel too on the spot and you don't want to answer, you just say, you know what, I'll think about it and I'll get back to you. But is there someone you recommend as a guest on this podcast?

[44:19] Ashley: Hmm. I can't think of a name right off the top, but I can. Yes, I do know some people.

[44:25] Michelle: All right, you can email me later. That's good. And I know that that's a hard question. I have to start putting that question in my. My initial email that I send to my guests, because I feel like for a lot of people, if I got asked that question, I would be like, oh, wow, I don't know. I have to think about it. So thank you for that. Let's see. You told us. My next question is, where can we find you? And I have your LinkedIn. I have your link to your HIGHlights for Healthcare newsletter, Cannabis Nursing Solutions, Facebook link, cannabis nursing school website, the link to your book, and your YouTube and Instagram. You're everywhere, girl. How do you manage it all? Oh, you told me you have a manager, right? Yeah, you would have to. That's crazy.

[45:19] Ashley: Yeah. And I'm trying to be a little bit better on TikTok, but, you know, it's there.

[45:24] Michelle: Gosh, I'm just trying to increase my posts from twice a week to three times a week, and I'm having a struggle doing that, man.

[45:34] Ashley: That's a whole strategy, man.

[45:36] Michelle: Oh, I tell you, it is.

[45:38] Ashley: Especially in this day and age with. With artificial intelligence. It's almost as if the technology drives how much output you can have, man.

[45:50] Michelle: So true.

[45:51] Ashley: To keep up.

[45:53] Michelle: Yes. Well, this is really. It's been fun. It's been so informative. It's been eye-opening. You know, I learned so much, and it's so interesting. And I'm just so glad that you said yes to coming on the podcast because you've just brought so much value to my audience. So thank you so much, Ashley. I really appreciate it.

[46:17] Ashley: Thank you. I really appreciate having this conversation.

[46:21] Michelle: Well, we are at the end, and so we're ready for the five-minute snippet, and it's just five minutes of fun. So are you ready for that?

[46:28] Ashley: All right, cool. I'm always down for some fun.

[46:32] Michelle: All right, I'm going to start my timer. Would you rather be able to talk to animals or speak all languages fluently?

[46:45] Ashley: Animals.

[46:47] Michelle: Yeah. Do you have any?

[46:48] Ashley: I do. I have a dog and a cat, but I just feel like animals are way more interesting than human beings.

[46:55] Michelle: Like, I mean, you sound like my daughter. That's funny. Okay, this is this or that. City or countryside?

[47:05] Ashley: Countryside.

[47:08] Michelle: I'm with you.

[47:09] Ashley: Okay.

[47:10] Michelle: If you could travel back in time, what period would you go to?

[47:16] Ashley: Who? What period? Okay. I would not go back to any time when civilization existed.

[47:26] Michelle: You want to go back before the time of man, right?

[47:29] Ashley: Yeah, I do. I would love to see, like, what the earth looked like and, like the beginnings of life and the first plants and trees and, you know, like the tumultuous weather conditions because there was no real balance at the time. I got. Would love to see all of that stuff. I wouldn't necessarily go for any human interaction. You might have a theme with that. Right.

[47:53] Michelle: I bet you loved the lockdown. Did you?

[47:56] Ashley: I did. I did.

[48:00] Michelle: So funny. Okay, beach or mountain vacation? Beach. Yes. Would you rather read a book or watch a movie?

[48:11] Ashley: Movie.

[48:13] Michelle: Movie girl. Okay, if you could switch lives with anyone for one day, who would it be?

[48:21] Ashley: Beyonce.

[48:23] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine?

[48:25] Ashley: I know, right?

[48:26] Michelle: Living her life for one day. I mean, God, that's all you would need is just one day.

[48:32] Ashley: I mean, 30 seconds.

[48:35] Michelle: That's crazy. Okay, if you could teleport anywhere in the world, where would you go? You could just be there in a second.

[48:47] Ashley: Where would I go? I don't know. I think that's hard to answer one specific place, but I think I would want to go to it. I want to go to all the seven wonders of the world. Like, can I just go to all seven?

[49:00] Michelle: Sure, yeah. Do one at a time. Right. Okay. If you won the lottery tomorrow, what would you do the next day?

[49:12] Ashley: The same thing I'm doing today.

[49:16] Michelle: I was like, she's going to say, I wouldn't change anything. I just do the same thing.

[49:21] Ashley: Yeah. I mean, I would have the comfort of some extra money, but I would. I would not do anything different.

[49:26] Michelle: That's so cool. If you could visit any planet in the universe, which one would you visit?

[49:34] Ashley: Pluto.

[49:36] Michelle: Pluto? That's way out there. It's cold.

[49:39] Ashley: I know, but wouldn't that be so cool to see what it's like? What is the atmosphere like?

[49:45] Michelle: It would be awesome. I think I would see, I would want to see Jupiter. I don't know why it just seems like a beautiful planet. Okay. If you could eliminate one thing from your life forever, what would it be?

[50:02] Ashley: Oh, eliminate one thing. Capitalism. Mm hmm.

[50:09] Michelle: I'm with you. Let's get rid of that. Okay. Let's see. Indoors or outdoors?

[50:15] Ashley: Outdoors.

[50:17] Michelle: Out. If you could change one decision you made in the past, which one would it be?

[50:25] Ashley: I don't know if I would change any of it.

[50:28] Michelle: It's kind of who makes us, like, who we are today, right?

[50:32] Ashley: Yeah, I think that. I mean, I think there are things that I've thought about, like, what would happen if I went down that timeline. And there are only a few moments that I think of that, and it. One example of that is my first nursing job. I had a choice to work in a pediatric ICU or the med surg, but I chose med surg because I thought it was safer. Safer?

[50:55] Michelle: Hmm. Wow. Yeah. And I chose pediatrics because I thought it was safer. And, man, did I learn. Not safe. Fun, but not safe, right?

[51:08] Ashley: Yeah.

[51:09] Michelle: Well, you did great, Ashley. Thank you so much for indulging me in the five-minute snippet. It's. It's always a lot of fun, so I appreciate it.

[51:18] Ashley: Thank you. Yeah.

[51:19] Michelle: And I just appreciate you coming on today and sharing all your knowledge with us. So have a great rest of your day.

[51:26] Ashley: All right, will do. Thank you so much.