Sleep. According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders, quality sleep is as essential to survival as food and water. It is crucial for forming and maintaining the neural pathways in your brain that allow you to learn and create new memories. Lack of sleep can make it harder to concentrate and respond quickly.
Now, imagine being a healthcare professional—a nurse, physician, or surgical technician—who is also the parent of a child who struggles to sleep and prevents anyone else in the house from getting rest. Yet your job requires you to make critical decisions and perform complex tasks while being chronically sleep-deprived, which can have catastrophic consequences.
Enter Lacy Hess, a nurse entrepreneur who created Lacy’s Lullabies, a sleep consulting business aimed at helping parents and children achieve the restful sleep they need. As a certified pediatric sleep consultant, Lacy assists parents in developing safe sleep plans designed to promote sleep independence. With 13 years of experience as a Registered Nurse, a certification in Emergency Nursing, and a Master’s degree in Education, Lacy brings a wealth of knowledge and credibility to her practice. Her clients consistently provide rave reviews.
If you're a nurse considering a change in specialty or looking to start a side hustle, sleep consulting could be an ideal option. This field leverages many skills that nurses excel at, including flexibility, time management, prioritization, and the ability to provide evidence-based education.
In the five-minute snippet: Well, son of a nutcracker, it’s Buddy the Elf.
For Lacy's bio, visit my website (link below).
Lacy's Lullabies Blog
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[00:00] Michelle: Sleep.
[00:02] According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders, quality sleep is as essential to survival as food and water.
[00:11] It's crucial for forming and maintaining the neural pathways in your brain that allow you to learn and create new memories.
[00:19] Lack of sleep can make it harder to concentrate and respond quickly.
[00:25] Now imagine being a healthcare professional, a nurse, a physician, or a surgical technician who is also the parent of a child who struggles to sleep and prevents anyone else in the house from getting rest.
[00:40] Yet your job requires you to make critical decisions and perform complex tasks while being chronically sleep deprived, which can have catastrophic consequences.
[00:52] Enter Lacey Hess, a nurse entrepreneur who created Lacey's Lullabies, a sleep consulting business aimed at helping parents and children achieve the restful sleep they need.
[01:04] As a certified pediatric sleep consultant, Lacey assists parents in developing safe sleep plans designed to promote sleep independence.
[01:14] With 13 years of experience as a registered nurse, a certification in emergency nursing, and a Master's degree in education, Lacey brings a wealth of knowledge and credibility to her practice.
[01:27] And her clients consistently provide rave reviews.
[01:33] So if you're a nurse considering a change in specialty or looking to start a side hustle, sleep consulting could be an ideal option.
[01:42] This field leverages many skills that nurses excel at, including flexibility, time management, prioritization, and the ability to provide evidence based education. In the five minute snippet: Well, Son of a nutcracker, it's Buddy the Elf.
[02:18] Well, good morning, Lacey. Welcome to the podcast.
[02:22] Lacy: Hi, good morning. Thank you for having me.
[02:24] Michelle: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Ever since I saw you on Instagram, Lacy's Lullabies, I was like, what is this girl about? So I'm so interested. Yeah, there's so many nurse entrepreneurs and I just want to know your journey into that.
[02:44] But I know that you have a pediatric history, so just let's start from the beginning and tell us who you are, Lacy.
[02:52] Lacy: Yeah, so Lacy's Lullabies very much came by chance, but my background as a nurse is mostly ER nursing. That's where I started my nursing career. I started as an ER nurse and absolutely loved it.
[03:08] Straight out of nursing school, I went into like a nurse residency program at one of, like, a very busy ER in the Houston area and loved it. The way they had their program set up was great.
[03:19] I was sure I was going to be an ER nurse forever.
[03:22] But then I went into like, leadership roles. I did Charge nursing and it actually was the first place that I got into the stroke realm as well. I got to be exposed to the stroke world and how to go through surveys and what roles that nurses take in the stroke program.
[03:43] So that was just kind of like a glimpse into this world as, like, a nurse manager in the ER.
[03:48] I eventually got a little antsy and just kind of wanted to learn a little bit more, because in the ER, you are an ex. Like, you learn a little bit about a lot of different things, but you don't ever really get a really deep dive into anything like ventilators and things like that drips and how to manage them.
[04:07] Like, that's not a big part of ER nursing. You start them and then ship them out, hopefully.
[04:13] So I eventually moved on to critical care. I worked in the CVICU and really, really enjoyed it. I learned a lot. Balloon pumps, ECMO, CRRT. Like, all these things that I'd never seen as an ER nurse.
[04:29] But I also really missed ER nursing.
[04:32] So I was there for maybe a year before I went back to the ER. It was just a different one, and then kind of got burnt out of that, too, after a year.
[04:43] But while I was there in the ER, again, an opportunity came up as a stroke coordinator. And I knew about a stroke coordinator from my original ER job.
[04:53] Um, there was a stroke coordinator at that hospital. I was the stroke champion, had been involved in the stroke survey process as that ER leader. And so it wasn't completely foreign to me, and it was something that I was interested in.
[05:06] So I applied for it and got it. And I've been doing that for the last eight years. So I've been a stroke coordinator longer than I have been an ER nurse now.
[05:14] But I enjoy it. And it's been a really big learning curve for me. I have a really great group that I work with. Yeah, you just kind of help run the stroke program.
[05:23] It's a quality/process improvement/education and data, like, all combined into one. And you help maintain stroke certification for the hospital that you work for.
[05:36] Michelle: That's a lot of heavy stuff right out of school.
[05:39] Lacy: Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I really loved the journey I've been on, and I've kind of just. I found myself, like, after a few years, I just want to learn something else, learn something new.
[05:51] And it's not that I dislike what I'm doing. I just eager to learn something else about nursing. And then since I've been in the stroke coordinator role for so long, which I guess that's perspective.
[06:02] Right. I've been doing it for eight years with people that have been nurses in the same place for a really, really long time. But I've been it for eight years, and I was just getting eager to learn something new.
[06:11] I knew my role really well, but I just wanted to try something else. But I wasn't ready to give up what I was doing either. I had my son in 2019, and I had my daughter in 2021.
[06:23] So that job works really great with me having a new family. So it's not one that I wanted to give up, but I also want to learn something new.
[06:32] So I was just kind of searching for something that I could do as, like, a passion project and something that I could learn and get really involved in and be interested in and have a lot of fun doing.
[06:42] And I came across a pediatric sleep consultant. And I, as a new mom, like, I never even knew that was a thing with my husband and I were able to get our kids to sleep independently at very early ages.
[06:55] So this really intrigued me because I didn't realize that this was something that people could actually go and help other parents do. I knew I was successful at it, and I knew there was a strategy to it, but I had never used a sleep consultant before.
[07:09] So I kind of took a really deep dive into sleep consulting, learning all about it, educating myself, and was really excited to do it. I. It was really outside of my comfort zone, and it still is.
[07:23] Like, there's still a lot of things, like social media, all of that is completely outside of my comfort zone. But if you'd asked me a year ago, like, or even a year and a half ago, if you'd said, would you be interested in recording a video on Instagram?
[07:35] I'd be like, absolutely not. Like, I don't. I do not want to do that. But now, like, that's, like, my preferred way to actually post is videos. So it's been a big learning curve for me.
[07:45] But I love it so much, like, when I get the opportunity to actually help parents with their child's sleep and then see their success and their confidence, like, build throughout the process.
[07:56] And by the end of it, they're like, why did I wait so long to do this?
[08:01] It is just so rewarding, and I love it so much, and I can't wait to see what 2025 has to offer.
[08:08] Michelle: Yeah, I was intrigued as well when I found your account.
[08:13] Like, you, I had no idea. You know, Peds nurse for 18 years, NICU nurse for 18 years. Never had I heard of that role.
[08:24] And so I was definitely intrigued.
[08:27] When you were a pediatric nurse, did you see any faulty sleep patterns that, like, maybe parents told you about, or they said, you know, he can't fall asleep without doing this or that.
[08:45] Did you witness any of that yourself as a Peds nurse?
[08:48] Lacy: So my background is mostly emergency room nursing, and
[08:52] I did go into the pediatric realm just because I wanted to know what I was talking about when I was working with pediatric patients. I didn't want that to be something foreign to me, but it wasn't my primary area of nursing.
[09:05] And to be quite honest, I am the youngest in my whole entire family. Like, taking care of children was never part of me growing up. And being in this role now, it's just really funny to me because I'm like, I never in a million years would have thought that I would be doing something like this.
[09:20] But once I had my own kids, things changed. Like, I became a whole lot more comfortable with kids. I mean, I incorporated what I already learned a little bit in my ER days, but I was more comfortable with kids, and I knew them a lot better.
[09:34] And now I, like.
[09:35] Lacy: I love children, and I feel like I'm excited to teach other people about it, but my background is nursing is not primarily pediatrics.
[09:44] Michelle: Got it. Okay. So who are your clients, Lacy? I mean, obviously they're parents, but how do they find you, and what are their biggest concerns?
[09:58] Lacy: So the patient, the people that I work with, I often say patients, even though that's not really applicable in this role. But the people that I work with are typically parents who are seriously struggling with their child's sleep.
[10:11] So they are multiple overnight wakings. It's taking them forever to go to sleep. Or they were previously bedsharing, and they are ready for their child to get into their own bed.
[10:22] Or they started bed sharing because they couldn't get their child to sleep in their own cribs. Like, exhausted. Come to bed with them, and they're just. They can't. They don't sleep enough at night, and they're just exhausted constantly.
[10:33] It's like chronic exhaustion. They're at their wit's end, and they. They need some help on getting their child to be able to actually sleep throughout the night. And then my last client was mostly around naps.
[10:45] Like, her child would not nap more than 45 minutes during the day at six months, and that's really hard. She had no downtime during the day.
[10:54] And she was just couldn't do it anymore. So she reached out for help. And people find me either through social media or word of mouth. Like, I work with one person and then they tell their friend about it, and then they refer them to me.
[11:10] Michelle: Well, sometimes word of mouth is the best way. Right. Because you have that testimony of somebody that's gone through your program and been successful, and they say, you got to try this.
[11:25] This person is amazing. So that's sometimes the best advertising, right?
[11:32] Lacy: Absolutely, it is.
[11:34] Michelle: Yeah.
[11:35] So I probably broke all of the sleep laws with my daughter in terms of bed sharing. She was sleeping good till 11 months.
[11:51] She was napping during the day, and then she started waking up every two hours around 11 months old.
[12:01] And what did I do? I would get up with her, I had a rocking chair in her room. I would rock her, I would sing to her, and then I would lay her back down and she'd sleep for maybe 20, 30 minutes, and then she'd wake up again.
[12:18] And we did this all night long.
[12:21] And of course, working full time as a nurse and, you know, I got completely exhausted and went to my pediatrician who said, well, what are you doing with her when she wakes up?
[12:35] And I said, well, I'm trying to get her back to sleep. I'm rocking her, I'm singing to her.
[12:41] And he was like, wrong, wrong, wrong. You're doing it all wrong.
[12:46] And he said, you're giving her exactly what she wants. Like she wants attention, right? Like she wants to be with you.
[12:56] Yeah. And, you know, he. He wanted me to do the, the three night thing where, you know, you let him scream the first night and you, you go, I forget what it was.
[13:08] It's like 20 minutes max. And then, you know, then the second night and the third night, and, you know, that did work, but it just left this huge hole, like, in my soul. super hard, super hard to do, as any parent, you know, can witness.
[13:28] But if I had come to you, you know, 38 years ago and said, Lacy, I'm going crazy. I don't know what to do, you know,
[13:42] would my plan look like?
[13:46] Lacy: Yeah. So it's really hard. And every patient is different. So I completely understand your struggle. And the way that it would work for you would be to one, see how your.
[14:01] Sorry, was it your son or your daughter?
[14:04] Michelle: My daughter.
[14:05] Lacy: So with your daughter, I would see how is she eating during the day? Like, does she have a nap schedule? Does she have a feeding schedule and see how your daytime routine is going?
[14:16] And then I would see what time is she going to sleep, what time is she waking up in the morning and then how often is she waking overnight. That way we kind of have a baseline of where you're at and go from there.
[14:27] Once we have a baseline, then it's kind of assessing that baseline to see where we need to make adjustments. Is she only napping once throughout the day when she really should be napping twice?
[14:38] Is she getting all of her intake during the day to where she's full at night, or is she waking up for feedings?
[14:46] And then once we kind of tweak that schedule and get a plan in place, then as far as the sleep training part goes, we do it based on your comfort level and what you are willing to do.
[14:57] Right. So every parent is different. There's a few different approaches. Some can be very parent present, which is really gradual approaches. If you were rocking to sleep and holding to sleep, it would basically be just instead of rocking, you're just going to hold her, you're not going to rock her, you're just going to hold her.
[15:13] Is she going to cry? Probably. But you're there and you know, she's like, you're there with her. You're there like supporting her.
[15:19] Michelle: Right.
[15:19] Lacy: Even though you're not rocking her, you're there to support her and you're just gradually weaning support. And eventually you would be putting her in her crib and you would just stay by the bed and then you would kind of fade yourself out.
[15:32] It's kind of a fading method. But some parents prefer that just because they're physically present, even though there is still crying and sometimes more crying. Being present is reassuring for them.
[15:43] But then there's what you were talking about, which is more like a fervor method or check and console method to where you would put her down. You'd go through a whole sleep routine.
[15:53] Right? Like that's another thing. There's a lot of families that don't actually have a bedtime routine in place. And that bedtime routine is so important. Like that really sets your child up for sleep.
[16:03] They know, okay, we're starting this routine. Like, I know that I'm going to bed soon. Bedtime isn't a surprise to them anymore. Right? You continuously have a bedtime routine. They are, they learn to anticipate it and it's not a surprise.
[16:14] And they don't get as mad when it's actually time for. So you do your bedtime routine and you would put her down to sleep and then you would say like, good night and then leave the room, shut the door.
[16:26] And if she starts crying, you set a timer for 10 minutes, right? Or whatever you're comfortable with. We usually start at 10 minutes because it's the first night and it's always the hardest.
[16:35] So you set a timer for 10 minutes and see if she's able to put herself back to sleep. And the big part of this is to actually listen to her cry.
[16:45] Because if you listen, you can tell the difference between a mad cry and a tired cry. And an I'm trying to fall asleep cry. Like there's differences and like it's when it starts to wax and wane and you can hear her actually trying to fall asleep.
[16:59] We reset the timer and then by the time, by the end of that 10 minutes, if she's still not asleep, then you can go in, do a few pats, say I love you, shut the door, and reset the timer again if she starts crying.
[17:11] And the first night is always the hardest because it's a brand new thing for your child, right? They don't know how to go to sleep on their own. They don't know how to fall asleep independently.
[17:21] So it's part of the learning process. The crying isn't I hate you, I don't love you kind of crying. It's I don't know how to fall asleep and it's frustrating.
[17:31] And once they actually learn to put themselves to sleep, that crying just goes away. So you'll maybe start with like a 20 minute crying period for the first night or 30 minutes, but then the next night it's like 10, and then the next night it's 5.
[17:46] But it's just seeing people through that process and letting them know that this is okay, this is normal, and you're not hurting your baby is really big because it's just part of the learning process.
[17:57] Just like if you're trying to teach them how to ride a bike or brush their teeth or like use a spoon for the first time, like they're not good at it the first time you try.
[18:05] And sometimes it involves tears because they're frustrated and don't know how to do it, but that's okay. Again, it's part of the learning process. Tears are okay sometimes, but that's pretty much how it goes.
[18:17] And then I do. It's for a full two weeks. So that whole sleep training process and everything, we do it for a full two weeks. It's all Virtual. So I text message do at least two twice a day, check ins with whoever I'm working with.
[18:29] One in the morning, one in the evening, and then sometimes multiple times throughout the day too. If we're working on naps, I see how each nap went and if they have any questions and we just kind of troubleshoot as we go, like if nap one didn't go well, how when should we start nap two.
[18:43] And then by the end of that two weeks that parent is more confident and kind of at, I want to say, like at one and a half weeks I'm usually like, okay, well what are you going to do next?
[18:53] And like they're basically telling me what they're going to do so that they can set themselves up for success when I'm no longer there to troubleshoot for them. So they just get confidence and get more independent and it's really amazing to see the changes that happen.
[19:08] Michelle: I bet because the two week period is a pretty short period of time for you to see a lot of improvement or I guess, you know, no improvement.
[19:21] But you know, me as a single parent, I didn't have anybody else to say, you know, am I doing the right thing? I'm not sure about this.
[19:34] So how important is it for two parents to be on the same page with the, the program that you set forth? I mean, talk about that because have you had couples that the dad is saying one thing like I don't think we should do this and the mom is saying another thing.
[19:58] So how do you approach that?
[20:01] Lacy: So that's something that we talk about ahead of time before we start working together. So I always do a consultation call before we even start working together just to make sure that, you know, one, they actually need me and that it's going to work for them and two, that they, they actually understand what the expectation is.
[20:21] Because I can give you all the advice in the world, but if you're not willing to actually implement it, like you're not going to see changes.
[20:29] And that's not just the mom either, it's the parents. So they do both need to be on board or if they're both not on board but the other person is willing to just, you know, be out of it completely.
[20:41] Michelle: Right?
[20:42] Lacy: Like just say this is so I'm just going to use a mom, for example, is just say if you want to use a sleep consultant and you want to get sleep indoor, that's fine, but you are the one that's going to like work with the sleep consultant.
[20:54] I mean that would work too, as long as the mom as that person is the primary person taking care of that child during that two week period. So it's really just up to the family.
[21:04] But it is so much easier when everybody's on the same page and is willing to abide by the plan, so to say. And then if not, it's more of just a disclosure, right?
[21:15] Like you're going to find more success if everybody's on the same page. But if you are doing it this way and then someone else is doing it completely different and not following this guideline, then I wouldn't expect to see changes as quickly.
[21:27] But there is also that, and there's an example I can use myself as an example is that like me and my husband were on the same page when it came to my kids, our kids.
[21:37] But when it comes to daycare, like daycare doesn't always follow the rules and they just kind of do what they do while you drop them off. Right. You don't really have a lot of control.
[21:46] You can tell them, this is the schedule that I want them on, this is the feeding schedule, this is the nap schedule. Please make it happen. You know, but you don't, you can't make them do it.
[21:57] You can go to a different, try another one, but you can't make them do it. So really daycare is just one of those that you can suggest certain things and ask them to do certain things, but it just is what it is.
[22:10] And your child can have really poor sleep at daycare but still be a really great sleeper at night, which my daughter is a fantastic example of that. Like she once she hit like 11, 12 months and she just became a little bit more mobile, she would not nap at daycare at all.
[22:30] And she was less than a year old at this point and she really needed to nap. So every time that she would come home, she would be in a terrible mood.
[22:38] And when she, we would try to put her down to sleep, she would, you know, fight it terribly. There's lots of crying, but she would eventually like fall asleep and she would sleep all night, but you could tell that she was restless.
[22:52] Like she would occasionally wake up and cry a little bit, but you could tell in her cry that it was a tired cry. It wasn't her like mad or needing anything.
[23:01] She was just overtired trying to put herself back to sleep. Gave her a few minutes and she went back to sleep and finished sleeping throughout the night. She, she was a very successful sleeper, but she has terrible sleep at daycare.
[23:15] And one of my clients was the same way. Like her daughter was not as bad as mine as far as not sleeping at daycare, but she would sleep maybe like an hour and a half and she was six months old and.
[23:26] But she got her sleep in order and she slept for 12 hours at night. So like she was making up for a lot of sleep at night and she was still a fantastic sleeper.
[23:35] So it's helpful if everybody in the home is on the same page, but it's not impossible for your child to still be a really great sleeper at night if there's not a hundred percent consistency during the day.
[23:48] It just may take.
[23:49] Michelle: Yeah, the daycare thing, you know. Oh yeah. And you know, daycare is necessary for so many of us. Right. And it can really mess with any kind of schedule. And let's talk about routines for a second because I see a lot, you know, I, I feel like when I was a young parent, I had a lot of routines.
[24:13] I am a person who likes routines.
[24:17] And so when I had my daughter, we had all these routines and then something happens or, you know, they, they get a little bit older and the routine gets off.
[24:27] And then I think that's when a lot of things happen in regards to sleep. But how important are those routines? And how do you get a family into a routine that hasn't been used to having one?
[24:44] Lacy: Right. So routines are so important and it doesn't mean that they can't change over time like your child. Like the routine that I had with my kids when they were less than a year old is a little different than what I have with them now.
[24:58] Like it's okay to change your routines a bit or add to them or take some things away. The whole point is like consistency about it though. Like you want to continue to have a routine, but even if you have to tweak it every now and then.
[25:11] So whenever they're less than a year, daytime routines are really important too, because you have feedings as well. You have feedings, you have daytime naps where like whenever they get older and they drop the nap.
[25:23] Like your daytime routine isn't as important, I guess, because they're not. You don't have to incorporate a nap in there and you're not bottle feeding or breastfeeding as much anymore or they're not reliant upon it.
[25:34] Right. Like that's not their main source of nutrition.
[25:38] But having a bedtime routine, like no matter how old you are is really helpful. Like even as adults, it's helpful to have a bedtime routine because you're preparing yourself for sleep.
[25:51] Like you are winding your body down the routine. This habit and this routine that you go through, your body recognizes it and prepares itself for sleep. And I think one thing that parents incorporate into their bedtime routines that I really wish they didn't is tv, tablets, phones, things like that.
[26:13] Because not only is it like the LED blue light obviously can help, like doesn't really help with your melatonin production. Things like that circadian rhythms get off. That is, that does play a role.
[26:24] But it's also with children that bedtime routine is a time for connection. We're all so busy, like our lives are so busy. It can be with a bunch of extracurricular activities or you know, you drop them off at daycare and you're going to work, especially me with my life.
[26:40] Like we, I live like an hour from where I work, right? So whenever I do have to go into work, that's a lot of my day. Like I drop them off at school, I'm at work, come back, it's dinner time, bedtime, like it's a really short amount of time that I actually have to get one on one with my children.
[26:57] But that bedtime routine is a really great time for that connection. And with toddlers you'll see and even with infants you'll see bedtime battles. And it's sometimes it's really just about the connection with their parents.
[27:10] Like they want that connection, they want to spend time with them, they want one on one time to where your parents aren't distracted on their phones or the kid isn't just looking at a tablet.
[27:21] They want to like read books, tell stories, even play like do put puzzles together. Just things that aren't like high level stress, right? Just relaxing activities. And it's just a time to connect with them before they go to bed.
[27:35] And it's a good time to talk with them about their day. Like, what did you learn at school today? What was your favorite part of the day? I asked my kids, you know, like, what do you want to dream about tonight?
[27:43] And we talk about like happy things too. Like what if you dream about like on a boat? Like we, my, my husband recently got a boat. So we've been out on the boat a lot lately and my kids love it.
[27:54] It was so much fun for them. And so I'm like, what do you want to dream about? It's like I'm going to dream about being on the boat with mom and dad and my sister and I'm like, that's great.
[28:02] And it really helps with, like, nighttime fears too, because they're kind of at that age where their imagination, like, is exploding. So there's like, monsters and dinosaurs and sharks and things that they think about sometimes.
[28:13] But if you, like, retell the story and make it, you know, fun or funny or have them think about something happy, that can help too, to eliminate, like, night wakings due to fears.
[28:24] But the routines are really helpful to, like, prepare for sleep. So it can be super simple, like brush your teeth, put a diaper on, put your jammies on, put your sleep stack, which was not something that I ever used either.
[28:39] So I know everybody uses sleep sacks these days, but it is not a requirement. My kids never used a sleep sack, and they did just fine.
[28:47] Put your sleep sack on, read your book, sing a song if you want to. That's something that I recently incorporated that we never did before. So my. I didn't incorporate songs into our bedtime routine until my daughter was three, which she still is three, she's almost four.
[29:02] But that's a really fun addition to our bedtime routine. And they still sleep great. So it's just kind of adjusted based on, you know, what's fun for you and your family.
[29:11] If it doesn't. If it's not fun anymore than you take it out. Replace songs with story time or whatever you want to do. But it's all about winding down, connecting, and doing these steps prior to bedtime so that your child can prepare for sleep.
[29:26] Very important.
[29:27] Michelle: Yeah, man, that is so important and, you know, for adults, too. And I think one of the things that's kind of so sad about today's society is the overuse of all of our electronic devices.
[29:45] Right.
[29:47] And every time that we're on a device, we're not connecting with somebody else who's like, right in front of us. And, and when that's a child, man, we're doing such a disservice, I feel.
[30:01] And you know, again, I'm going to go down memory lane with my daughter. You know, she was born in 1986. We didn't have any of those devices. So we had things like books.
[30:14] Lacy: Yeah.
[30:15] Michelle: And puzzles and cards and we could do those things before bed. And it made it so much better for sleep for both her and I.
[30:33] And just like you said, for connecting, for bonding, those things are just so important, and I think those are lost today.
[30:41] And I try now with my grandkids, when they come over to. I Don't even have my phone out. I put my phone away.
[30:53] And when they go home, I go, oh, man, I didn't take any pictures.
[30:58] And so that kind of makes me a little bit sad. But it's like, no, but I have all those memories of everything that we did together. And they do, too.
[31:09] And they didn't see me on my phone. They didn't see me distracted. They saw me that I was totally present in what we were doing. I think that's such a gift to give somebody, especially a child who really needs that, that positive attention.
[31:29] So those are some really good points that you made.
[31:32] So I want to talk for a second about safety around sleep. And, you know, I'm sure you're aware of the American Academy of Pediatrics safe sleep recommendations, but talk about that.
[31:46] And do you have parents asking about that, you know, for your younger ones? But how do you approach safe sleep in your space?
[31:54] Lacy: So I do follow the American Academy of Pediatric Safe sleep guidelines, which are basically say, put it awake alone, on their back in a crib, by themselves.
[32:05] So put them alone on their backs in a crib is what I will teach my clients because that is the safest place for your child is in their own sleeping space, which is going to be a crib, a bassinet, or a pack and play.
[32:20] And I haven't had anybody so far that has fought me on that. Usually people are coming to me looking for a solution. So having to put them in a crib or a bassinet or a pack and play isn't something that has been a battle for me.
[32:37] But no matter who it is, even if they are already using cribs and bassinets and pack and plays, I always include that in my sleep plans just to make sure that they understand that their child should be alone in that sleep space.
[32:53] Not blankets, no, like stuffies and lovies for them to cuddle on. It should just be them and either swaddled or in a sleep sack. And they can't have a pacifier.
[33:04] If they are some. If they are a child that, like, actually uses a pacifier to fall asleep, that's fine. But we definitely. I definitely stress the importance of safe sleep because when I'm working with clients I like, that's the last thing that I want to happen is something unsafe.
[33:18] But with that said, as a sleep consultant, parents are going to do what they feel is best for their. For them. Right. There's a lot of discrepancy when it comes to bed sharing.
[33:31] And then also like putting them in their own sleep space.
[33:35] So I'm not one to judge either. If that's working for you, then you do you like, you do what's best for you. But just be aware that the AAP does recommend that you put your child in a safe sleeping space outside of your bed.
[33:53] It can be in your room, it can be next to your bed, they don't have to be far. But that is the recommendation and that's what I support. But I'm also not there to like shame anybody that's not doing that.
[34:05] And then I do have, what is it called, like a freebie, basically, which is top three sleep tips for a newborn to 1 years old. And in there it includes sleep environment and, you know, safe sleeping practices.
[34:20] But I'm definitely on board with it, with the AAP. I do think that that's the safest place for your child.
[34:25] Michelle: Yeah. And you know, I know that being a pediatric nurse for so many years, we saw lots of unsafe sleep environments and the most that we could do was say this is what's recommended and this is why.
[34:43] But short of, you know, forcing or making or shaming anybody to do that, of course we were powerless. And I've heard this from so many pediatricians, so many neonatologists that, you know, they, they sit down with parents and they have these, these tough conversations about what is the safest way to sleep.
[35:07] And then, you know, parents are going to do what they're going to do, but they need to be aware of it. And ultimately, you know, it is their responsibility.
[35:18] So, you know, I think you're doing due diligence definitely by letting them know. And I do think that you being a nurse also, when you are counseling parents that, you know, they know you're a nurse and that comes with a sort of, I guess your advice comes with a sort of, I don't know what the word is.
[35:44] Responsibility. Like they, I think most people are going to listen to what a nurse has to say. And so I think the credibility is there. Yes, credibility is credibility. Yeah, that's the word that I couldn't find.
[36:02] So thank you. But gosh, it has to be a challenge for sure.
[36:07] So how are you able, because I was thinking about this and I got on your website. Awesome website, love it. And I did download your free, your little freebie
[36:18] Yeah, your three tips. I was like, this is all so good. I love it.
[36:22] But you have multiple clients and it sounds like, you know, that you give them really good support, one on one support. With multiple clients.
[36:31] And I'm like, how are you able to do that with another job and children and a husband? I'm like, wow, that is awesome. But tell me some of your strategies and some of your struggles that you've had in doing that.
[36:48] Lacy: Yeah, so definitely lots of struggles. But I mean, my husband's very supportive of me including this into what I want to do with my life. So that's a big role as well.
[37:00] He helps a lot.
[37:02] We've kind of always worked as a team, so, you know, when he needs to do something, I'm there. When we kind of divvy up our duties based off, like, if he's working, he's a nurse as well, so he works 12 hour shifts.
[37:12] So whenever he's working, he really can't do a lot. But whenever he's off, he's super helpful and basically does everything. So it works out for us. And so it's helpful to have a supportive partner in it.
[37:26] And then my kids, you know, they, they're growing up, so they're a whole lot more independent now. I mean, they're. My daughter's almost four, my son just turned five. So, you know, they both are potty trained and they entertain each other really well, which is great.
[37:42] Great. It was part of the reason I had them so close together as I was hoping that they would, you know, help entertain each other. And they're very good at that.
[37:50] But other than that, like, I do have a very. My job is very flexible, so I'm very fortunate to have the job that I have. I love the people that I work with.
[38:00] My boss is amazing. She knows that I have this as a side business and she's very supportive. But my job, I can do some. I can work from home sometimes or I can go in the office too.
[38:12] And so that flexibility with my schedule really helps.
[38:16] But it's still, it's still a challenge for me to kind of find a balance without, you know, overworking myself, especially with trying to market myself. That was the hardest. That's the hardest part for me is kind of getting on camera, learning social media, teaching people about who I am and what I do and making those connections.
[38:38] So that's kind of what I learned all of last year, or I'm still trying to learn it, but that's kind of where I started all of last year is just to try to meet new people, make valuable connections, get my social media up and running and my website.
[38:51] But there's definitely been lots of nights where I didn't follow my own advice and get good sleep. I just. I was so excited to be doing what I was doing and, like, get my website going and learn all this stuff, and you don't, you know, it takes a toll on you.
[39:05] So I do. I did, closer to the end of the year, try to find a balance and prioritize certain things over others. And anyways, I'm really eager to see how 2025 will go, but my flexibility of my schedule and then my support system has helped a lot, for sure.
[39:24] Michelle: Yeah. And, you know, I have to say that I think as nurses, we're so good at. At being flexible. Right?
[39:31] Lacy: You have to.
[39:32] Michelle: We just have to be. We have to be. And so it kind of permeates every area of our life. And, man, I remember, you know, when I first started the podcast, how, you know, I was retired, but I.
[39:46] I never slept so little because all of the things that you're doing are so. They're so stimulating, like creating a website and creating your social media account. And it was like, how am I going to find guests and which microphone am I going to use?
[40:03] And it's just these constant barrage of decisions to make and choices and everything.
[40:12] So I want to talk about the business aspect of it, because as nurses, you know, we're not taught in nursing school to be entrepreneurs. Right.
[40:21] And so how did you navigate that, talk about that?
[40:25] Lacy: Well, I'm still navigating it.
[40:28] I've been doing this since fall of 2023, so I'm still, like, just barely over a year into this.
[40:36] So the business aspect of it, I'm still learning a lot in 2025. I'm hoping to get more people in to help me with the business aspect of things and get me more organized.
[40:48] And ultimately, I would love to be able to create, like, some type of membership or course or program for parents to, you know, buy into and get education throughout their child's life.
[41:04] Right. I'm not sure exactly what that looks like yet, but it's ultimately what I want to do, because working one on one, while I do think it is the most valuable for a parent, I understand that it's not something that everybody is seeking to do.
[41:19] So if I can give different levels of education on sleep and help as many families as I can that are looking for the support and looking for ways out of their sleep deprivation, because I just feel like there's so many parents out there that think that when you become a parent, you're just.
[41:38] Sleep deprivation is just normal. It's like the expectation, like you signed up for being a parent and that's just, you're tired, you're asleep, deprivation, like that's just normal. It's going to be like that forever, but it just really doesn't have to be like that.
[41:55] Michelle: So let's talk about your plans for 2025. What do you want to see in the future?
[42:01] Lacy: So 2025, I really want to see, like I want to be able to grow my business. I love working one on one with families and I still think that that is the best route to go because you're going to get such a deep dive into your, your family's personal sleep concerns and sleep issues and you get somebody to like guide you through all of it and help you and give you some reassurance that you're doing things fine, like you're doing great.
[42:27] This is what you need to tweak. Like that one on one is really special. But not everybody is looking for that or wants to do that or could afford that necessarily either.
[42:37] So I would ultimately like to create like a membership program to where like there's different levels to help with anybody looking for sleep support at any stage of development. Like whether it's like newborn, toddler, infant, just have resources for them in a place that they can go to get the support that they need, even if it's not one on one support.
[42:59] So that's kind of my ultimate goal. I'm not sure it'll all get done in 2025, but I would love for that to happen and I would love to bring some more people in to kind of help me get there as well.
[43:10] Michelle: Yeah, that's a great goal. And you know, I see that, I see it expanding. There's definitely a need for it. And you know, would you ever consider like coaching other nurses to in their sleep training journey, you know, being a resource for them?
[43:32] Lacy: Oh, absolutely.
[43:34] I would love to be a resource for anybody that is looking to sleep train their child.
[43:38] But nurses, especially with their shift, work like the 12 hour shifts. Like I can only imagine having to work multiple 12 hour shifts in a row and then have to go home to a child that's not sleeping and then on my days off have a child that's not sleeping.
[43:53] And you would never sleep. Like that's just not safe in the nursing world or any in the medical world, to be quite honest, to be that sleep deprived all the time.
[44:03] But you know, people do do it not the best.
[44:06] Michelle: Oh gosh. I know. Maybe that's why the caffeine industry is so huge, right?
[44:13] Lacy: Yeah. Unfortunately, nursing is exhausting in its own.
[44:18] Michelle: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
[44:20] So I recently learned through researching you is that there's a certification to be a sleep trainer. So talk about that certification and maybe where people can find out more information on that.
[44:37] Lacy: Yeah. So there are probably different ways to go about it, but I chose the center for Pediatric Sleep Management. Jane Havens is the owner of it, and she's really fantastic. She's got a really great program, and she's one of those that's, like, constantly building upon it.
[44:54] So she gets. She makes really great connections and talks with more people that are all related to sleep. Right. Like dentist, pediatrician. She worked with one where it's goes over, like, how to sleep train with, like, autistic or neurodivergent children, things like that.
[45:12] So she continuously is adding onto her course, and it's like, once you pay for her whole course, like, anything she adds onto it is free. Right. It's just one time payment.
[45:21] You get all these additional educations as they come along. She's got a really great Facebook group that has a lot of different sleep consultants in it. And all over the United States, actually, all over the world.
[45:30] I don't even think they're all in the United States. So it's a great resource. So if I, as a sleep consultant, was really struggling with a client for some reason, like, I could go on that Facebook group and get some advice from other sleep consultants on, like, how they might approach a certain situation, ask them business questions and things like that.
[45:48] But it's a fantastic program. So if you are interested or if anybody's interested in seeking and becoming a sleep consultant, I would highly recommend that center for Pediatric Sleep Management with Jane Haven.
[45:59] It's a really great. And I have an affiliate link, I believe, as well.
[46:03] Michelle: Oh, sweet. Okay, so send me that and I'll put it in the show notes.
[46:10] Okay, well, we're going to get ready to kind of wrap it up here. But what has been the biggest challenge and the biggest success of this journey for you, Lacey?
[46:22] Lacy: Oh, man.
[46:24] The challenge has been time management and prioritization for me. It's funny because in nursing, that was kind of my challenge as well.
[46:33] Time management, ER nursing, and prioritizing patients. But that was also the most fun. Like, you got to learn how to, like, triage people who was the priority patient, and then you learn all these fine management skills.
[46:44] So I'm just excited to be, you know, make that work for me in the future. But right now, that's kind of my biggest challenge last year was time management and prioritizing the things that can help me to grow my business and get more clients and help more parents.
[46:58] Oh, my biggest success, I think any client that I've worked with so far is. Has been a success for me, and it's so rewarding. So I just really look forward to working with more parents who are struggling their child's sleep because it's so rewarding seeing their confidence build and seeing them sleep and their baby sleep, and they just feel so much better.
[47:17] So, yes, that's my biggest success, is every client that I've worked with.
[47:22] Michelle: Well, I just think that this is really a great career for nurses because as nurses, we have all of those skills.
[47:32] We have the ability to teach, right? We teach every day, our patients, our clients, our families.
[47:40] And we have flexibility, and we have those skills like time management, prioritization.
[47:47] We have all the literature that backs the safety.
[47:51] We have the credibility as nurses that patients seek, that clients seek.
[47:58] So I just think this is such a perfect avenue for nurse entrepreneurs to go down and, man, thank you so much for sharing your journey today. I know that it's going to help so many nurses and so many parents that are listening, get more information about this and.
[48:21] And hopefully reach out to you.
[48:24] So thank you for sharing all that today, Lacy.
[48:27] Lacy: Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
[48:30] Michelle: Yeah. Well, is there somebody that you recommend as a guest on this podcast who?
[48:35] Lacy: There is.
[48:37] So her name is Liz Drewski. I'm pretty sure I'm butchering her last name, but she is the owner of Navpath, and I found her on LinkedIn a while ago.
[48:49] Have you had her on before?
[48:51] Michelle: No.
[48:52] Lacy: Okay. So I met her on LinkedIn, and she's owner of Navpath, and it's basically she has, like, a formulation for nurse navigators in the, like, obstetric and maternal areas.
[49:08] And I honestly had never even heard of a nurse navigator before I met her. Like, all the facilities I've ever worked at had never used nurse navigators, but they have such value, or they could have such value if you use them.
[49:24] And I get that not all organizations have them because I work. I've worked at all of them that don't have them, but they can be so valuable. And then, like, as a nurse that works in the stroke world, like, that would be so valuable for stroke patients as well.
[49:38] Like, to just have that person that's making sure you're, like, being discharged on the right things and following up and making sure you're going to your appointments and different things like that because it gets missed so much.
[49:48] But this is like her business focuses on that and the obstetrics and maternal health world, which absolutely needs somebody like that. Because being a nurse and then also being someone who's had children in the hospital before, there's definitely big gaps and education, like, if I had absolutely no nursing background and knew nothing about anything related to having babies or pediatrics or any of that, I would have been completely lost.
[50:19] Completely lost. And I still was a little lost, to be quite honest with you.
[50:24] Michelle: Yeah. Like you, I recently learned about nurse navigators and I think that's going to be the upcoming thing really for nurses.
[50:32] And I learned about it through a podcast called behind the Shield Podcast that's hosted by James Geering. He's a retired firefighter. I'm a big, huge fan of his podcast. But he interviewed a nurse and a physician that started a nurse navigation program through Global Medical Response, GMR, which is an air and ground ambulance company.
[50:59] And they are working with ems and they are, they've had a successful program I think in Louisiana. But they're routing calls that come in the 911 system to a nurse navigator because they're, they're, they've realized all those, all those 911 calls are,
[51:20] They're not all emergencies, but a lot of patients, a lot of people call because they don't know what else to do. Or maybe they called their doctor and they got that message to if you're having, yeah, call 911.
[51:36] So I think that's going to be the up and coming thing in nursing for sure. So I will recommendation set us up for sure.
[51:47] Introduce us on LinkedIn and that would be great.
[51:51] Lacy: For sure. I'll send you her information.
[51:53] And then there's one other person was Angela McPhillips and she works for Nurse Pro writer. She has her own writing business. And I recently talked to her and she's got this really interesting way of going about education and writing.
[52:08] And she told me about it's like an email education course that she can help businesses set up. And she's kind of in that parenting maternal world as well. That's kind of her focus.
[52:19] But she helps businesses that work in that world to build email education courses for their business, which I thought was a really interesting way to get like to market yourself and to educate your followers.
[52:34] It was interesting to choose someone.
[52:35] Michelle: Yeah.
[52:36] Lacy: I met her on LinkedIn. LinkedIn's a great place to meet people.
[52:39] Michelle: Oh my gosh. I have met so many great people on LinkedIn. I absolutely love it. Yeah. Thank you. Well, where can we find you?
[52:47] Lacy: So I'm on LinkedIn as Lacy Hess and then I'm also on Instagram as Lacy's Lullabies and also on Facebook as Lacy's Lullabies. I'm most active on LinkedIn and Instagram, but that's where you can find me.
[53:01] And then anybody can always email me or go to my website as well to learn a little bit more about what I do.
[53:07] Michelle: Yeah. Again, I love your website. It's set up so nicely and it's really easy to navigate. And I also love your Instagram. I have to say, you know, you've nailed the video part.
[53:20] You're. Yeah. Really effective and really love watching your videos and I've learned a ton, so I think that's a great place to find you as well.
[53:30] And thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Lacey, for being here and for everything that you've brought to this conversation. I have certainly enjoyed it.
[53:39] Lacy: Me too. Thank you so much.
[53:42] Michelle: Well, you know, we're at the end, so we do the five minute snippet and it's just five minutes of fun. It's just kind of off duty questions just to catch that off duty side of Lacey Hess when she's not being a sleep consultant.
[53:58] So are you ready to play that?
[54:01] Lacy: Yes, ma'am. Let's do it.
[54:03] Michelle: All right. It's so much fun.
[54:45] Okay.
[54:46] Convince me to live in Houston.
[54:50] Lacy: Houston. Well, the home prices are probably manageable here compared to probably anywhere else in the United States. You could probably afford to live here. And then there are lakes and there is the coast.
[55:07] So if you're into fishing or beach or anything on the water, there are options for you for sure.
[55:15] But bring your shorts because it's hot like 90% of the time.
[55:19] Michelle: I second everything you've said. I've been all over Texas and it's such an interesting state and such a diverse state in terms of climate.
[55:29] And Houston is such a fun city. I love your absolute. What's it called? The Galleria.
[55:35] Lacy: Oh, the Galleria.
[55:36] Michelle: Yes.
[55:37] Lacy: It's got an ice skating ring in it, too. It's fun.
[55:41] Michelle: My gosh. I was like, you know what? They make places like this because it's so hot for so many months of the year that everybody goes inside and they shop.
[55:52] Lacy: That was cool. Yep.
[55:56] Michelle: Okay. What is one food you could eat every day and never get tired of?
[56:02] Lacy: Ooh, probably tacos. And they have some really great tacos in Texas, let me tell you. Tacos, for sure.
[56:11] Michelle: I was just gonna say, man, you're in the place for tacos.
[56:14] Lacy: Yeah, it can be.
[56:15] Michelle: Yes.
[56:16] Lacy: Chicken. It can be beef. It can be. You can mix it up and make it whatever you want. But they're. They got some amazing tacos here in Houston. And then just go even more south.
[56:23] It's even better.
[56:25] Michelle: Oh, man. I agree. Okay. Would you rather be in the deepest part of the ocean or outer space?
[56:34] Lacy: Ooh, ocean, for sure. The outer space is completely unknown to me.
[56:41] Not that the deep parts of the ocean are known, but at least I know how to swim.
[56:47] Yeah, no, definitely ocean.
[56:51] Michelle: Okay. Who would you be if you could be any fictional character for a day? Just one day?
[56:58] Lacy: Hard. Fictional character for a day.
[57:08] Michelle: They are hard.
[57:09] Lacy: This one's really hard.
[57:11] Michelle: Who would your kids want you to be for one day?
[57:13] Lacy: You know what? Okay. So since it's Christmas time, it's making me think of. Have you seen the movie Elf with Will Ferrell?
[57:21] Michelle: Oh, my God, I love it.
[57:22] Lacy: So I would totally be him for a day because he is just so optimistic and happy about everything. I mean, he's a little naive, but still. Like, he just. He's just so happy and bubbly and just makes everybody happier.
[57:37] Like, I would totally be him for a day.
[57:39] Michelle: I love it. And he already. You guys already sound like you have similar personalities, so that'd be cool. Okay. Do you have any idiosyncrasies?
[57:50] Lacy: Hmm. I'm sure I do, but do I want to admit that I have them as a problem?
[57:58] I should ask my husband this question, right?
[58:04] I do feel like I have.
[58:07] I don't want to say a control issue, but I feel like I kind of have somewhat of a control issue, idiosyncrasy or not. But I do have a little bit of a control issue when it comes to, like, I just want to do a lot of stuff myself, which is actually really hard when it comes to parenting, because I want my kids to be so Independent.
[58:25] So I need to, like, not do everything for them, which is.
[58:30] I don't really think. I don't know if that's an idiosyncrasy, but I am a little bit of a control freak. It was the same with nursing, too. It was hard for me to delegate things, so I just wanted to do it all myself in a timely manner.
[58:41] Michelle: Yeah, I. I was like, you're a nurse, Lacy, of course you have control issues, right?
[58:49] Lacy: Yes. It comes up.
[58:50] Michelle: Okay, we're in your house and there's a picture on the wall of your favorite travel destination. Where is it?
[59:00] Lacy: Sedona, Arizona.
[59:02] So my husband and I went there for our honeymoon, which I know a lot of people go like up to the beach and stuff, but we planned kind of a last minute trip to Sedona, Arizona, and it was absolutely beautiful.
[59:15] Like, those Red Rock mountains were really nice and the weather was fantastic. It wasn't like too cold, it wasn't too hot, and it was just absolutely gorgeous. And so I have a picture on my wall, which is actually one of those back there.
[59:28] And it's. Yeah, one of my favorite places.
[59:31] Michelle: Yeah, I love looking at your picture wall. It's amazing. I'm so jealous. I have been trying to get a picture wall up for about 20 years.
[59:41] Haven't done it yet.
[59:43] Yeah, my brother and his wife went to Sedona and they said it was one of the best vacations ever. And they've been all over the world.
[59:52] So that sounds like a place that I need to go.
[59:55] Okay, last question.
[59:58] Would you rather have the ability to time travel or to read minds?
[01:00:04] Lacy: That's a really great question.
[01:00:09] I want to say read minds.
[01:00:12] I think as people, we're always kind of curious about what other people are thinking, like, really thinking, versus, like, what they say they're thinking.
[01:00:22] Yeah, no, I think that would be really interesting to kind of get in the mind of people and see how they're thinking. Yeah, definitely that one.
[01:00:30] Michelle: Time travel seems cool and everything, but yeah, I want to know what people are really thinking, like you said.
[01:00:39] Well, this has been a really fun conversation. Lacy, thank you so much for everything that you've brought to it. And definitely I will put all those links in the show notes and introduce me to your guest.
[01:00:51] I'm excited to see where things go for Lacy's Lullabies too, the next year. I think it's going to go far.
[01:00:59] Lacy: Thanks. I'm really excited.
[01:01:01] Michelle: Yeah. Well, you have a great rest of your day.
[01:01:04] Lacy: Thank you. You too, Michelle.
[01:01:06] Michelle: Take care.