Rebel Nurse, Erika Browning

[00:00] Michelle: Erika Browning is one of the most interesting guests I've had to date. She has a diverse educational background, earning degrees in Spanish, biology, and nursing. And the diversity doesn't stop there. Her nursing experience ranges from working in the emergency room to the ICU, from being a travel nurse to a sexual assault nurse examiner, and from a case manager to starting her own business as a life care planner. Erika is truly living the tagline of her podcast, which is "basic nurses doing really cool things." 
Wait, did I forget to mention she has a podcast? Erika is the host of the Black Sheep Nurse podcast, which is currently on hiatus, meaning now is your chance to binge-listen all the episodes. It's filled with interviews of nurses doing amazing things with their degrees. I was thrilled to learn she will be resuming production because her interviews are sure to leave you laughing, learning, and inspired. 
Her newest entrepreneurial venture is all about the fun, which I think might be her middle name. She has recently launched Shop Rebel Nurse, a merch store with quirky and lighthearted items for nurses, including graphic tees, sweatshirts, ball caps, and stickers. And I see a new design in the works that pays homage to her time as a Captain in the Marines! Did I forget to mention that, too? Erika is as authentic as they come, and I'm excited for you to meet her today.
In the five-minute snippet: Move.Over. Well, hello, Erika. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:10] Erika: Thank you for having me. Michelle, it's so nice to speak to you.

[02:14] Michelle: It's finally good to touch base, right? We've been trying to do this for a while, and you have a super busy life. You work full-time, and, gosh, you're doing so much. Erika, you have a podcast. You have a merch store, which is really cool that I want to get into. And you have a full-time job. That is super cool, too. That is kind of niche. I had never heard of it before, so I want to talk about that, too. But let's just get started by finding out who you are. Who is Erika Browning? What is your story?

[02:53] Erika: Well, I'm Erika Browning. I am originally from Texas, and that's where I was born, in Houston, raised in a small town up in northeast Texas. And, you know, nursing was not on my radar. You know, I wanted to go to medical school, Michelle, because I thought that was, I don't know what I thought. I guess I thought it was more important, more accomplished, more something. I'm so glad I didn't take that route. But at any rate, I went to college at Texas Tech. That was my first degree in Spanish. And then after that, I went into the Marines and then worked for Merrill Lynch for a bit. And then I decided I wanted to go back to medical school. So I was like, well, I already have a, so my major was in Spanish, but my minor was in biology. Well, what do I need to do to just get another degree in biology? And so it was only a year of schooling, and I got my med school prereqs done and got another degree in biology. And of course, by that time, decided again I was not going to do that because I had, by that time, I'd volunteered at an ER in Wilmington, North Carolina. And I saw the charge nurse in the ER, and sister was in charge of it. She was the go-to person. She knew everything. She was barking orders. And I was like, yes, that's what I want to do, I guess. Bark orders. I don't know, but I bark orders all the time. No one listens. So that didn't work out. So then after that, I went to Georgetown, and that was a second-degree program. And so I quickly did that, and I worked in DC for a while, and then I moved out to California, still in the ER, ICU. I'd gone back and forth, you know, I got tired of the ER, all the nonsense. So I went to the ICU, and I'm like, it'd be so nice to have, like, two patients where you know everything. And it was. And I learned a lot. But then I got bored with that. I went back to the ER. And so anyway, I got burned out altogether. And then I had a friend in the ER here in California who was doing case management worker's comp. She had gotten out, she escaped, and I was like, what are you doing? Do you like it? Tell me everything. And she did. And then they finally had a position open up in San Diego, and I applied for it and got it. And so that's, that's my day job, is case management for workers comp. And everything after that has been my little idea, so.

[05:25] Michelle: Well, that's so cool.  I love your spirit. Like, you have such an adventurous spirit just reading your bio, I'm living vicariously through you. I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's done so many cool things, like the BA in Spanish, I think that's so cool. And I want to talk about your military experience because that is super cool. But let's talk about your podcast for a moment. So, I love your podcast. I've been a fan for a long time, and we've shared some great guests together. Sarah Lorenzini, the Rapid Response Nurse. April Waddell, nurse, money date. Nicole Weathers from Stat Pd. And then, of course, the gals from the nursing beat. And some of your other guests have had really niche jobs, like the Petco park nurse and the Padres nurse. And are you a Padres fan?

[06:21] Erika: Definitely. And they play the Dodgers tomorrow night, FYI.

[06:26] Michelle: Okay. And then you had an addiction medicine nurse, a nurse coroner, and a lot of nurse entrepreneurs. And one of the things that you say in your podcast kind of tagline is that nurses can do so many cool jobs with their degrees. So talk about that.

[06:46] Erika: Yeah, so I. Part of my day job as a case manager is I do work from home, but I meet my patients at their appointments, and my territory is really large. It's all the way from San Diego up to LA, out to Palm Springs, and sometimes up to Bakersfield. So I listen to podcasts is the point I'm trying to get at. And so I was with my friend Jana. You've probably seen her, French Forensics. And we. I don't know how we got started on this, but we were just thinking about all of the cool jobs that nurses are doing. And I was like, God, they do this and that and that and that and that. And I was like, I should have a podcast where I just interview them and have them come on. Because the tagline was or is basic nurse is doing really cool things because we're all basic nurses. We all went to nursing school, and then they spit us out, and we all started from the very same place. And then you go on, it's like this massive tree in the root system. You just go on to do all of these cool things. And what do we always hear about, Michelle? How burned out nurses are? Oh, I'm so burned out. I don't know what to do. Well, I'm one for solutions. Okay, here's some solutions. And so that was the idea was, I'll just have a different nurse on, you know, and it's. They don't have to be big on Instagram. They can be a regular nurse from a small town living life because that's what you want to do. Some nurses want to do that and just show the big range. And so I just got this idea, and I took a little class on how to start a podcast. And there we go.

[08:27] Michelle: Man, I wanted to take that class. I didn't take it. I just threw caution to the wind and said, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but.

[08:36] Erika: Well, how did you just look on YouTube?

[08:38] Michelle: You know what? I just read a lot of stuff, and I don't know, part of me was like, how hard can it be? But then when I was in the thick of it, I was like, oh, yeah, it's a little bit more involved than I thought.

[08:57] Erika: Well, which is why I paused it, because I hate the editing, as I've told you. But I have solutions. So we're looking to restart it up next year.

[09:08] Michelle: Yeah. I'm really excited about that because it's very valuable, and do you think that there's a general unawareness among nurses about what they can do with their degrees?

[09:19] Erika: 100%, yes. 100%? Yes. Because I just think about myself, and then I think about all of my peers and all my friends. You know, nursing school trains you to be a bedside nurse. And honestly, that's fine. I know a lot of people. Some people have a problem with that. No, it shouldn't be that way. It should be this way. You know, I don't know that I have the solution to that, but I do know that's where everyone comes out. You're a bedside nurse, and I believe that bedside experience is pretty invaluable. But beyond that, you know, nurses typically get burned out or they're just like, I'm kind of bored, you know, I want to do something else. And you think, you know, going through nursing school, at least you think ER, ICU, PEDS, NICU, med surg, maybe psych. That's it.

[10:11] Michelle: Not psych.

[10:13] Erika: Not psych. No, it never interested me. But, you know, it's in the realm of telemetry, sir. You know, things like that. And then as you get into your nursing career, you start hearing things like little spinoffs of, oh, well, I'm going to go do this. Oh, well, I'm going to go do this. And then it never occurs to you that, wow, you could be a corporate nurse. Oh, wow. You can work for this company. Oh, wow. Forensic nursing. You can be a death investigator. You can be a coroner. Like, are you kidding me? That was Bobbie Jonale, episode two. She's running for reelection this year. So her on Instagram because she's a nurse who has to run for election to be a coroner. And you certainly never heard about that. So, yes, I think there is a massive unawareness. Is that even a word? Not aware, making up words of what you can do. And that was what the whole point of the podcast was, is to offer solutions, okay? If you're unhappy or you just want to make a change, how about this? How about this? Because just deep down, really, in my being, I believe that options lead to freedom. Options lead to freedom.  And that means in your finances, that means places to live, that means that can be taken to all sorts of, applied to all sorts of experiences and situations. And if you feel like you have options, you can make a move. You don't have to stay in a spot where you're unhappy, bored, being mistreated, all sorts of things. So that's that deep desire for independence and freedom is really where all of this stands.

[11:59] Michelle: Yeah. I mean, I worked in a hospital for 36 years, well, 40 years, but 36 as a nurse. And, you know, people might look at me and say, okay, she does not like adventure. She likes predictability. She likes knowing what she's going to do every day. And that was all true. And then I retired. And just by means of having a podcast, I've discovered, like you, that there are so many different things nurses can do. And it's really just blown me away, and it's made me a little bit nostalgic, you know, like, for my working days. Like, oh, my gosh, you know, if I were to go back to work, what would I go back as? You know, would I be a SAN-E nurse? That's always interested me. Any kind of forensics, I think would be really cool. So it just opens up so many avenues, like you said, for freedom. And nurse entrepreneurship is huge. Like, I have never talked to so many nurse entrepreneurs, and you're a nurse entrepreneur. You are the founder and CEO of EB Medical Planning. And how did you do that? Because that, to me, seems super scary, going out on your own, starting your own company. So how did you navigate that?

[13:21] Erika: Well, so this is one of the things that I always advocate on my platform. I shouldn't say always, I need to talk about it more, is I was a case manager doing my case manager day job thing. I had a friend, a colleague, she said, hey, there's this network for case managers, and they meet quarterly, they'll do lunch and learns. You get to meet other case managers, kind of share resources, because that's kind of what case management is, is, you know, part in part locating resources for your patients. So I was like, okay, fine, great, I'll go. Well, I go. And then you meet other people, and then you meet other people. And then I. That's where I met my mentor, who actually started this group, I think. And she's the one who told me about life care planning, and I was like, well, what's that? My colleague and my mentor were telling me. And I'm like, well, I want to do that, and what do I need to do? What do I need to join? And so I joined a professional organization. I went to the conference, and I just. I don't know, michelle. I just. I think deep down, it all stems from this idea that you know, we get one life and I'm going to live it. I'm going to try new things. I'm going to not be afraid to fail publicly. Well, that's not true. I'm totally afraid of failing in some situations. I'm just not gonna let it stop me. Like, just don't let it stop you. You know?

[14:45] Michelle: Do it anyway.

[14:46] Erika: Just do it anyway. Yeah. It may not go well, or you might not be liked, or it may take longer than you want, which is always the case, but just go do it. Yeah. So the lady who was in charge of this networking group, and then my colleague knew about it, so I just talked to them. I joined a professional organization for life care planning. My colleague and my mentor, I said, hey, will you do a Zoom call with us and just, you know, the three of us, and just tell us more about it, how to get started. I went to the conference last year, and I'm actually going again in early November. And then you just meet other people. It's not easy at all. Learning something new, being new at something. Everything is hard. But, you know, I always kind of boil it down to, okay, fine, then. Then don't do it and just stay where you are. So that's like one angel, you know, one little figure on this shoulder saying, okay, you know, I mean, I don't have to do it. Don't you see where you are? And the other one's like, yeah, I'm not going to do that. Okay, well, then off you go. Next step. And sometimes it's often like that. I don't always have that drive. There are plenty of days that I want to quit, and I'm like, okay, fine, and quit. Well, I'm not quitting. Okay, well, then what's the next right step? Do that.

[16:08] Michelle: I love it. I love your talks with yourself.

[16:13] Erika: It's, like, remotely by myself. Can you tell?

[16:17] Michelle: It's like the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other. And sometimes you're fighting yourself, right?

[16:25] Erika: Mental toughness and mental battle, and I have not conquered it. It's a battle every single day. But if I can get to. Okay, fine, quit. Well, I don't want to. Well, then next step. And then once, you know, you take all the steps and then you look back and you're like, all right, we're getting somewhere.

[16:45] Michelle: Yeah, I mean, that's such a great message, you know, and I've heard that so many times about, you know, okay, you're going to have fear, you know, but. But do it anyway. And I have used that in my own life to just push me forward to do things. I could have stopped so many times, you know, trying to start the podcast, trying to build a website, and I wanted to, and I cried a lot, and I was like, why am I doing this? Why? Why, why? Well, because it interests me. It's fun, it's mentally stimulating, it's challenging. All those reasons why we want to do something. And so, like, don't let fear stop us. Just, if it's something that you want to do, yeah, you're going to be scared, but do it anyway.

[17:37] Erika: Exactly. I love that. And so that's why, at least in my messaging, I never want to come across as sort of pooh-poohing or downplaying bedside nursing. Because if that's what you want to do, go do it. The message is more, do what you want to do, and don't let fear stop you. So if you're where you want to be, at the bedside, and you're loving it, great, I love that for you. But if you're really kind of unhappy and you want to try something else but you're afraid, tap into that. Challenge yourself. Okay, well, what am I afraid of? What am I really afraid of? Well, I'm afraid of failing. I'm afraid of people talking about me. What if I hate it and I'm like, okay, well, what if you do? And.

[18:19] Michelle: But what if you love it, right?

[18:22] Erika: What if you hate it? What if it's the worst decision? Let's go there. What if it's the worst decision you've ever made and you miss your old unit? Then go back.

[18:31] Michelle: Go back.

[18:32] Erika: I promise you, they will take you back.

[18:35] Michelle: Exactly. Oh, my gosh, that's great. Well, okay, I want to talk because you mentioned professional organizations and how you joined a professional organization and you didn't just join one. Erika, you are a member of the Rehabilitation Nurse Coordinators Network.

[18:55] Erika: Yes.

[18:56] Michelle: The International Association of Rehabilitation Professionals, American Association of Nurse Life Care Planning, Case Management Society of America, American Association of Legal Nurse Consultants, and Juris Educational Resource knowledge for legal nurse consultants. Okay, I'm exhausted now. Yeah, well, I, that's crazy and wonderful. And talk about the value of those. I think a lot of nurses would join more organizations if they felt like there was something in it for them.

[19:31] Erika: Yeah. Well, I can tell you. So that's several, I'm not super active in all of them, but what several of them have. So the IARP and I think the AANLCP and then the legal nurse consultants, what they have are list serves where people go on. And a lot of it's subcontracting work, which, that's a side note, but a lot of it is people will ask questions. So if you're someone, let's take legal nurse consulting, for example. You're like, I really want to get into it. Okay, great. Well then join the jurists. It's short for jerks, which is so funny. But the jurists' educational resource knowledge something or other, join that one and join the legal nurse exchange, the LNC, I think exchange. And they post things all of the time and you don't even have to say anything. You're like, oh, I'm afraid I don't know. Don't say anything. I never say anything in any of those listservs I just read, people will post, especially the jerks one. If you're new and want to get another legal nurse consulting, join that one. And it's pretty cheap. It's like $20 a month. And people, I mean daily are posting questions. Have a question about this, have a question. And especially that one. They have a mentorship program, so all you have to do, you join, join the listserv, and pay attention to the questions. And if you want a mentor, to be assigned to a mentor, they have that opportunity. And I don't think it doesn't cost any more than that. So it's an easy way because I know these in-person conferences can be really expensive. And people are like, I don't want to go somewhere by myself because it's really awkward. Which, trust me, I get it. I do it all the time. But it is forced, okay, it does get easier, but it is forced. But these listservs of these organizations, you just learn, you just take it in, take it, and you're like, oh, what's that? Oh, what's that? Google. Hey, will you be my mentor? I mean, you just, it just opens all of these doors and possibilities. And then that's where you're like, well, Erika, how do you find out about all these jobs that nurses do? You freaking just listen. That's what you do. Because stuff comes out and you're like, oh, what's that? You talk to them about it.

[21:44] Michelle: Yeah, I love it. I feel like for the listservs alone, it's totally worth it because like you said, you don't really have to participate. You can just read, and learn. I was a member of NANN, the National Association of Neonatal Nurses for, you know, a couple of decades, and I learned so much from the listservs and, you know, brought things to my unit like, hey, this is what this other hospital is doing, this other NICU is doing. This is what is emerging in research right now. You know, let's try this with our population. So it is so valuable. And, you know, most institutions you can deduct, some of them pay for you to belong to one organization. You know, they'll pay for one membership a year. They'll pay for conferences, stuff like that. So I just think they're so valuable.

[22:45] Erika: I do too. And especially if people are like, okay, I'm not outgoing. You know, fear holds them back for whatever reason. Okay, I hear you. Not everyone's built the same. What you can do, at the minimum, is whatever specialty you're in or whatever specialty you're interested in, find the organization that that specialty serves or is a part of. And as Michelle said, join it. And they probably have a listserv. They'll at least have a newsletter or, you know, weekly, monthly emails. And then just pay attention. Don't say a word. You don't have to put yourself out there at all, except to sign up for this thing and then see if your unit, hospital, or organization will pay for it.

[23:29] Michelle: Yeah, it's really a great resource. And you're cracking me up right now because of your personality, it's so dual in a way. It's like you're so social and outgoing, you're such a presence on Instagram and you travel and all this stuff, and then in another way, you're kind of like a hermit. It's like you have this dual personality.

[23:57] Erika: Yeah, I know it can be confusing because I've thought about it myself. So I kind of think of my personality and everyone's like, this is like, think of like a pumpkin pie or a pie. And there are times where I do feel outgoing and I do want to get out and I do want to socialize and that's that piece of the pie and then there's another piece of the pie where you are going to find me on my couch. That's where you're going to find me. That's the only place you're going to find me. And I'm not leaving. And then the other slice of the pie, I am a marine that's in there somewhere. It's not all the time, but it's another slice of the pie. And so I'm not really that extroverted. I'm really not. And I don't know, or I used to not be. And then, like I think I said on my Instagram Stories once where you, you know, you don't think you're extroverted. You're not extroverted. You don't want to be around people. And then you work from home, and you're around no one, and you're like, hey, where are the people? Actually, I think I might like people. And so I think I definitely need time to recharge by myself. That is how I recharge. I'm not one that needs to be the center of attention. I don't need that. And now that I've done all this networking, you know, I forced myself anytime I tell people, nurses on my page, to go do this and go do that, it's not because I'm great at it. It's because I understand the feeling of forcing yourself to get uncomfortable because it'll help you get to where you want to go. So go get uncomfortable. I don't do it because I'm comfortable with it. I intentionally do it because I'm uncomfortable. But then it does get easier. It does. I have become better the older I've gotten at meeting new people and walking into a situation where I don't know anyone. I don't love it all the time, but it gets easier. I'll say that.

[25:50] Michelle: Yeah, definitely. With more exposure to doing uncomfortable things, it does get easier. I've experienced that as well. And I think there's a misconception of people that are in media. So podcasters and, you know, we have social media that we appear in and so forth, and there's a misconception that we are very extroverted and outgoing. And I hear from so many people in media that that is really kind of the opposite that, you know, they're. They're very introverted, and people find it hard to believe, but it's true. And maybe it is just because we need that time to recharge our batteries, and then we kind of go out again. And, yeah, there's a balance there.

[26:43] Erika: Yeah, I definitely am personally very private, but that's just a boundary. I've always been that way. And, you know, you have to find boundaries. Some people will tell you everything. Well, that's not me. But it doesn't mean. Just because you're a private person doesn't mean that you're not friendly. You know, it. There's what I like to call there's extremes, and there's a very heavy middle. A very heavy middle. And where you are on the continuum can change. It changes daily, weekly, how you're feeling, monthly, whatever. I would encourage nurses to think, you know, if they think, oh, I'm introverted, therefore I'm staying in. I have to stay in this box. No, you don't. There's room for you in all sorts of ways. And, no, you don't have to become something that you're not. You might have to get a little uncomfortable sometimes, but that's just life. Same for. With extroverts. Like, oh, I have to be doing this, but I kind of want to go over here. Well, then go do it. You know, and just. It's. Don't keep yourself in a box.

[27:47] Michelle: Yeah, I'd love your message of just you. Do you, like, don't try to be, you know. I'm not going to try to be Erika and you're not going to try to be Michelle. Just be Erika and I'll be Michelle.

[27:58] Erika: Yeah. It won't work anyway, by the way. It wouldn't work. It's not real. Above all else, people want to be around other people who are authentic. Yes, I hope I know. Like, the person that I portray on Instagram is the person that I am, and that's what people want. It doesn't mean you have to share everything in the world. You don't have to. People don't want to know all of that. Okay, true, they don't. They might think they do, but they don't. But you just have to be yourself and let the chips fall where they may.

[28:34] Michelle: Yep. I agree. Well, you mentioned that you're a Marine, and I want to talk about that because that's really something that is so interesting, and I feel like it's so, I don't know what the word is. It's just so brave. Tell me about that. So you're not just a Marine. You were a Captain in the Marines, which holds a lot of clout. Why did you join and what did you do in your military service?

[29:09] Erika: So my dad was a Navy corpsman in Vietnam. So growing up, our house was always very patriotic. And then actually, when I was in high school, he encouraged me. So he was a Navy corpsman who served with the Marines in Vietnam. So if anyone doesn't know this, Marines don't have their own medical staff. They get that from the Navy. The Marines fall under the Department of the Navy. So corpsman, you know, they're kind of in the field taking care of, you know, Navy personnel. Well, they can be assigned to marine units and then be stationed abroad. So he was assigned to infantry platoons, and then they went over to Vietnam. So that's how that worked. So we were very patriotic. And when I was in high school, he's like, oh, you should go into the Marines. I'm like, oh, lame. I'm not doing any of that, Dad. I'm going to college. And so then I went to college, and I had changed my mind about medical school, and then I got my degree in Spanish, and then I was going to become a teacher, and then I did my student teaching, and I'm like, oh, no, I'm not. No, thank you. And then I was like, well, what do I want to do? I'll be damned if I'm just going to go to some small town somewhere and sit around and just wait for life to happen to me. And then I was like, I'll join the Marines. Why that came into my head, I don't know. And so I looked it up online, and then I went to a couple of, because I had a college degree, I would go to be an officer. And there were a couple of officer selection courses, like weekends where you could go and they'll basically, you know, treat you like garbage to show you what it would be like. So I did a couple of those, and then I was like, all right, let's go. I want to travel. And I felt it was, I am very patriotic, and so I felt it would be an adventure and I would have a job, and I felt like I was doing part of something that was bigger than myself and important. And so I did. And, you know, I, when I was at officer, it's called officer candidate school. It's in Quantico. All officers go to Quantico to participate in officer candidate school. And I had a moment even then, you know, where? I don't know. I was a few weeks in, and it was rough, it was brutal. And I'm like, I don't know if I can. I don't know what to do. I don't know. And I'm like, well, fine, then go home. Fine. And then I'm like, I am not going home. Well, okay, out you go. You know, so that sort of theme of, wow, I don't want to do this anymore, but I'm not going back, so just step forward, you know? So anyway, you go in. It's a whole long story. I won't bore you with it, but I ended up with the MOS of air traffic control. And so I was stationed. My first duty station was at. Well, I went to Marine Corps school. No, air traffic control school in Pensacola at the Navy. It was a Navy school. And then my first duty station was at Marine Corps Air Station, Beaufort, South Carolina. And then I wanted the east coast because I wanted to do this Mediterranean cruise. So for those who don't know, Marines will go out for six months on these boats. They're considered the quote, unquote tip of the spear so that boats are already out. So if something with one of our allies or something pops up, you know, you don't have to get it together in the US and go, we already have boats out there all the time, and Marines are the ones who are the. And I wanted to be the tip of the spear in the Mediterranean because this was before 911. I wanted to make the port stops in, you know, Italy and Spain, and I wanted to do that whole. But then 911 hit, and we got, instead of that cruise, they took all of the Marines and personnel who were going to go on that Mediterranean cruise, and they got a one-way ticket to Iraq instead. Oh, my gosh. I. But that was June 2004, and then we came back in January 2005, and actually, I was a first lieutenant. I didn't even get promoted to Captain until I was off of active duty. I was in my inactive duty status in the reserves. There are two kinds of reserves you can do. You can do the reserves where you hear, you know, they drill once a month and two weeks a year, and you get paid for that. That's one sort of reserve. And then the other reserve is called individual ready reserve, where you're basically, your name is on a list, and if they need you for the next four years after your active time, they'll call you up. So I got off of active duty as a first lieutenant, and then I got my warrant in the mail that I was a Captain. I'm like, oh, my God, they promote anyone. And so it feels a little weird saying Captain, to be honest. But that's accurate.

[34:08] Michelle: That's something you should be super proud of. I mean my brother-in-law just made Captain in the Air Force.

[34:16] Erika: Okay.

[34:17] Michelle: And, man, I just have so much respect, and it takes a lot of guts. And again, I love that you told the story that, you know, it wasn't easy. And again, you have that devil on your shoulder saying, well, you could go back, you could just stop, and you're like, no, I don't want to. You know, but that's always an option. So you knew your options, but you knew what you wanted, and you went for it. And that's so admirable. And, man, how do you think your time in the military affected you or influenced you as a nurse?

[35:01] Erika: I think overall, my time in the Marines just gave me a lot of confidence, especially around leadership. You know, if there's anything decent about me and being a leader, it's from my time with them, you know, and talking about setting the example. And there's all sorts of Marine Corps principles and that. I mean, they're drilled into your head, and then, you know, they're important because if you go to battle, you're leading other marines, and you have to set the example. You have to have courage, honor, commitment. It's the same in nursing. You know, I honestly, I feel like, you know, I don't want to say a lot of nursing leadership, but what does it mean to be a leader? Well, you set the example. You don't hide in your office. Leadership by email is not a thing. You got to get out in front of the troops and some of the troops are nurses. You know, you should be the duty expert setting the example. Going out and doing this is the way that we're going to do it. And I think nurses want that, even if they've never been in the Marines and have never heard it, you know, sort of qualified in that way. That's exactly what they want. They don't ever respect the manager who sits in the office, never comes out, never helps, only comes around to complain, and isn't good at what they do. No, they want the nurse who knows what they're doing and sets the example and leads. So I think it's a very. I think that's what most people in most professions want. They don't want to be talked at. They don't want to receive emails. Coward. Little cowardly emails or passive-aggressive. No, they want someone who knows what they're talking about and then leads by example.

[36:46] Michelle: Yeah, I think the military model is such a good one. In terms of leadership so many people in leadership positions could learn so much from. And, you know, if they adopted that, and I think their teams would just be so much better.

[37:05] Erika: I totally agree. I completely agree.

[37:09] Michelle: Well, I'll tell you what. When I watch your Instagram, I'm just constantly cracking up. And you have a great sense of humor. Where does that come from? 

[37:25] Erika: I don't know. Childhood trauma. I don't know. Where does the great humor come from? Some sort of trauma. My dad is pretty funny, and he's not outwardly funny. He has a very dry sense of humor. Sometimes stating the obvious is just funny. I don't know.

[37:47] Michelle: And that's what it is. It's just such a dry sense of humor. And I don't know if I'm used to that because my older brother, Chris, I've had him on this program a couple of times now. He's super, super smart, you know, not really super street smart, but just like very intelligent. But his sense of humor is so dry, like yours. And I just always laughing at him, and he doesn't understand it. He doesn't understand how funny he comes across because it is just that. It's just, like, stating the obviously. But I love it. I love watching your Instagram and all your, you know, talking about the different things that you wear. And, you know, like, I've worn this now for, you know, three days in a row, and I'm just like, wow.

[38:43] Erika: It's even funnier because it's true and it's ridiculous, but it's my go-to. It's like my binky, my black vest. Yeah, I love that thing. But, gosh, sometimes. Sometimes it's really just laughing at yourself. You're like, wow, I have worn this every day on these stories. They're probably wondering if I have any other clothes. I do.

[39:05] Michelle: I love it. I love it. Well, I want to talk about Shop Rebel Nurse, because you've been wearing some new clothes, Erika.

[39:14] Erika: Oh, you can't see. Oh, here. Yeah, yeah.

[39:17] Michelle: And I love the pumpkin pie one. I love that t-shirt. But tell me how that came to be.

[39:23] Erika: Well, I have always told myself when I was younger that I wasn't creative, that I wasn't artistic. I felt that I was more in science, and math. Cause I excelled in those areas. And that's true. I do excel in those areas, but I'm plenty creative, I appreciate art, and I like clever and witty. You know, that's sort of my sense of humor. That's what I laugh at with other people as well. And then graphic. I mean, graphic tees. It's not exactly a new concept, you know, popular. They've been around for a while, but I just found myself. This is probably, what, two or three years ago now, maybe two and a half. I would, I had this idea and I would see designs and I'm like, how can I make it nurse? This would be so cute. And not just, you know, nurse or nurses are great, which they are. We are. But I wanted to make it funny or clever or you had to look for it, or I just, I wanted to add that little bit of spice to it. And so I'd been snapping. Anytime I see something, I'm like, oh, snap, snap, snap, snap. And then I'd collected enough ideas and then I never did anything with it. I was just collecting ideas. And at the beginning of this year, I suspended the podcast. And I'm like, you know, it just, the editing, it never got better. I was sweating every week. I hated it. I loved talking to people. I loved it. I did not like that tech piece. And it never got, you know, when you're first starting something, you're like, oh, it'll get better. You have to give yourself time to be new. And I did that, and it's still, I still hated it as much as the first day when I did it. So I suspended it. And I had kind of suspended everything except for, you know, my other business and the lifecycle planning. And I was like, I'm just gonna leave it be and just chill for a minute. And then my friend Jana, was like, hey, I'm going to this forensic nurse conference in August. She said, why don't you do a couple of your designs? Because I'd showed her, shown her, and I was like, well, I don't know. She said you can just do a couple, see how well it's received, you know, no biggie. And I'm like, okay. And then that was it. It was like, and not only am I only going to do two designs, I'm going to do my Shopify store, and then I'm going to do this and then I'm going to set up my shipping. And so it's careful with me.

[42:00] Michelle: And ideas man took off. But it had been brewing for a while, like you said.

[42:06] Erika: Yeah, it had been brewing for a while. And I'd always wanted to do the podcast and, you know, the shirts and the merch together and, you know, I'd suspended the podcast. I was just going to do merch. And then as I got out, more talking about getting out, and I would go to conferences and talk to people, they'd be like, oh, my gosh, I loved your podcast. I'm like, really? Because you don't. People tell you, your friends tell you, and you're like, sometimes you don't know if you're reaching anyone. Is this doing anyone? You know, in the podcasting world, you can see the number of downloads you have, a month and that sort of thing. But it's not. It's not the same as being out and someone telling you, I had a gal. She's one of the forensic nurses. Cutest gal ever. She said I listened to every single one of your episodes. I said, you did? Wow. Wow. Okay, okay. And then I heard someone else, hey, you gotta restart. You have to. I have an idea. And I'm like, okay. And so I told myself, I've got the shop rebel nurse and getting the merch underway. Is there a way that I can restart it? And then, so I told myself, I'm only gonna restart it if I don't have to do this editing. Like, I just cannot take anything else on. I can do the interviews, but I've got my day job and I have my other business. Like, I cannot. It needs to be, this is it. And then I hand it off. So I think I've found a solution. It's in the works. Michelle.

[43:39] Michelle: Yay. I'm so happy to hear you say that.

[43:42] Erika: That's very sweet of you.

[43:44] Michelle: And I love your logo for the Black Sheep Nurse podcast.

[43:48] Erika: You know, I went back and forth from the Black Sheep Nurse to the Rebel Nurse.

[43:53] Michelle: I love both of them. So I'm hoping that you do a line when you restart your podcast, if you do a line of merch with the Black Sheep Nurse logo on it because I think that's so cool, too.

[44:06] Erika: Yeah, I just. I mean, are we sensing a theme here? You know, Rebel Fox, Black Sheep. I guess I feel like an outcast, you know?

[44:18] Michelle: Well, you're a brilliant one.

[44:20] Erika: Well, I mean, to encourage other nurses, if you feel that way, you know, it can be a lonely road to hoe. You know, when you have ideas and you go out on your own and you're like, fine, I'll make my own path. And then you start making your own path. And then you turn around, you're like, I'm the only one on this path. And you're having conversations with the devil and the angels on your shoulders because you're on your own. So it's not easy as you can attest to Michelle, but it's worth it. So I don't know where I was going with that, but it is worth it.

[44:56] Michelle: And obviously, we both get a lot of satisfaction from doing what we do. And you're living what you do on the podcast. Like, you talk about all the cool things nurses can do with their degrees, and you're doing it. You're doing them, and you're a nurse, and you're rocking it.

[45:16] Erika: I'm a nurse. I'm just a basic old nurse. That's the point.

[45:20] Michelle: Yes.

[45:21] Erika: A lot of times, people think you have to have, you know, a leg up, which, you know, there's no denying it. It can help, but it's not the only path. You can do it. You can start with nothing from zero, and that's where all nurses start is from zero. And then you get to make your own path.

[45:40] Michelle: Yep. And you certainly have. And you are living authentically. I feel like you're the same person talking to you right now, listening to you, seeing you. I know our listeners can't see you on video, but when I see you on Instagram, it's like you're the same person. You're authentic. You're not a different person there or here. And I love it.

[46:03] Erika: Well, thank you. I don't even know how people do that. Like, how do you? That's a lot of effort to put up a front.

[46:11] Michelle: Yeah.

[46:12] Erika: I wouldn't even know how to do it. But, you know, you just. And people are like, oh, well, you need to be what people expect. I don't even know what they expect. Do they? What did they want? Who knows? Just freaking be yourself. It's fine.

[46:28] Michelle: Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. Right?

[46:31] Erika: Right. That's right. Yes.

[46:33] Michelle: Well, thank you for joining me tonight, Erika. I've just had a blast talking to you and hearing about your story, and continue what you're doing. I really love it, and I would love it if you bring back the podcast. I love listening. And for everyone out there that listens, don't just listen. Yes, we love the listens. Right? Comment rate our shows. You know, DM us on Instagram, like, give us that feedback. We absolutely love it. And, man, I just can't say that enough. I've been saying it a lot lately. Like, just tell us how you feel.

[47:12] Erika: Yep. Just let us know. And then hopefully, Michelle, you'll come on my podcast.

[47:17] Michelle: I would love it. I would absolutely love it. Okay, well, we're nearing the end, so is there someone that you recommend as a guest on this podcast, Erika?

[47:28] Erika: Oh, my goodness, there are so many. You should have my friend Jana on for French Forensics. She has her own education consultant company. She's been a forensic nurse for years and she's one that. It's not a lot. The advice that she has is very practical and useful. You know, sometimes you'll talk to nurses and it's sort of this high-level jargon. And then the nurse that's hearing it on the other end, they're like, yeah, but what am I supposed to do? Yeah, do with all of this? She'd be a great guest because she could give one her background. She's in forensic nursing. She has a ton of experience. She knows a lot of people. And then she will give useful information for the nurses listening to the podcast.

[48:16] Michelle: Hey, that's all we want, right? Useful information, something we can do.

[48:21] Erika: Nonsense. Just what is it? Tell me.

[48:25] Michelle: Well, I would love to have your friend Jana on.

[48:29] Erika: I'll tell her. I'll say the message is from Michelle.

[48:33] Michelle: Very cool. I love it. Well, where can we find you?

[48:37] Erika: I am on Instagram @ShopRebelNurse. That's where I am. I think it's on Facebook as well. Now I am on TikTok, hanging on for dear life, but you can find me there. And then the website is shoprebelnurse.com.

[48:51] Michelle: I love it. And I would encourage all nurses to go there and check it out. Super, super cute. I love your caps, I love your shirts. I love it all. So thank you.

[49:02] Erika: If you sign up for the email list, you get 15% off. Easy peasy.

[49:06] Michelle: Yep, it's a deal. Sweet. Okay, well, we've reached the end, so, you know, at the end we do the five-minute snippet. It's just five minutes of fun. So are you ready?

[49:17] Erika: I'm ready. Let's roll.

[49:57] Michelle: Okay, so some of these questions have to do with a little bit of your work history. So we know you are an air traffic controller, and that's such a cool job. And so this question came from a website for pilots called Bold Method, and they have sample questions on there, and they had six sample questions. I got all six wrong. So I suck at any kind of pilot air traffic control stuff. Yeah. Okay. But here's one of the sample questions. So you're holding short of Runway 33, and you call the tower, letting them know you're ready for takeoff. The tower tells you to line up and wait for Runway 33. What should you do? So there are four possible solutions. A, taxi onto Runway 33, but don't take off until you're cleared to do so. B, taxi on Runway 33 and begin your takeoff. C, taxi on Runway 33 and start your takeoff when all aircraft are clear of the Runway. Or D, continue holding short of Runway 33 until the tower clears you for takeoff. 

[51:21] Erika: D. So I hate this quiz. They don't know what they're talking about. No, you do one of two things you can't. So let's say the aircraft is like, hey, I'm ready for takeoff. I'm at Runway whatever, because they've talked to the ground controller, they've taxied them there. The air traffic controller and the tower can say, hey, taxi into position and hold. And so they'll get on the Runway, and then they're holding. They're not going to take off until you tell them to. Many, here's a little tidbit. Many tower controllers don't want to do that, because as soon as I taxi you into position and hold, that Runway is not available for anyone else, period. So if I've got an emergency in the air, I can't use that Runway. So what I would prefer to do is whatever D was. Taxi.

[52:04] Michelle: Continue holding until the tower clears you for takeoff.

[52:08] Erika: Yeah. Cause then at that point, when I know there's not an emergency and it's time for you to take off, I'll say, you know, taxi on a Runway, something, and clear for takeoff.

[52:17] Michelle: That's what I thought it was. And actually, when I look at them now, it's like these are kind of two of the same things. It's like taxi, but don't take off until you're cleared to do so. Hold until the tower clears you for takeoff.

[52:31] Erika: Yeah, it's all about where are you? So taxi. Taxi into position and hold means you're on the Runway. And now I cannot use that Runway for anything else. If I tell you to hold short, you're not on the Runway, and then I can use it. For something else. It's the difference.

[52:46] Michelle: Well, I'll never be a pilot, so. Or air traffic control.

[52:51] Erika: That quiz can call me.

[52:56] Michelle: Okay, now you're a real-life Captain, but if you were Captain of a ship, what would you name it?

[53:03] Erika: Oh, God. USS rebel.

[53:06] Michelle: Ooh, ooh, ooh. You gotta do a shirt now. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[53:14] Erika: I can do it for the summer patriotic launch next year.

[53:17] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. That's great. Okay. Okay. E-reader or actual book?

[53:24] Erika: Actual book.

[53:25] Michelle: Yeah, there's nothing. Yeah. Okay. What does the air traffic control lingo term Wilco mean?

[53:33] Erika: Will comply.

[53:35] Michelle: Okay. Yeah. You know your stuff.

[53:37] Erika: You've said, hey, Erika. Taxi into position and hold. I'll say, Wilco.

[53:44] Michelle: You received the message, right?

[53:46] Erika: And I will comply with what you've said?

[53:47] Michelle: I will comply. What's the percentage of female Marine Corps officers? Any idea?

[53:54] Erika: I don't. It's super low.

[53:56] Michelle: It's very low. 4.3%.

[53:58] Erika: Yeah, I think back when I was in it, maybe two or three because that was a long time ago. That was 20 years ago. Because the percentage of females in general is low, and then female officers is even lower.

[54:11] Michelle: So, yeah, we gotta change that. Okay. You do a lot of driving. Cause I see this, and you have your quizzes all the time on Instagram, like, where am I going? And I always get them wrong. But you do a lot of driving. What's your pet peeve on the roads?

[54:31] Erika: It's the pet peeve for everyone. These slow drivers in the left lane. What are you doing over there? Move over.

[54:37] Michelle: Girl, let me tell you something. You're from Texas, and yes, my husband, my late husband, his whole family's in Texas. So when we went there, I loved the way they do their freeway system. Everyone drives in the right lane unless you're passing, and then you pass in the left lane. What's going on in California? No, people do not know how to drive with the right lane and the left lane. 

[55:11] Erika: Yes, they think that if the lane is open. Oh, I'll just go over there and hang out. No.

[55:16] Michelle: Oh, man. I agree.

[55:19] Erika: One of my other pet peeves about the California highway system. Texas is far superior in this, in my estimation, in Texas, all the exits are numbered and they're in order.

[55:31] Michelle: Yes. Thank you.

[55:33] Erika: So I don't have to know the name of the street, like Smith Street. All I have to know is exit 32.

[55:39] Michelle: Yes.

[55:40] Erika: And if I miss exit 32, I'll just take exit 33 and I'll go under it. And then come right back up and get on there.

[55:46] Michelle: The loops. You guys have the loops.

[55:49] Erika: We have the loops in Texas. And genuine this way, too. You get off on the wrong exit. Good luck to you. No clue where you're headed. And I have no idea how to tell you to get back on.

[55:59] Michelle: I know. The other thing I noticed is that, sadly, our freeways are so littered and full of graffiti. When we entered Texas, the medians were like mown grass, beautiful ornamental grasses. Clean overpasses were tiled and I was like, okay, they are spending money on their freeways and we're nothing.

[56:27] Erika: Yeah.

[56:30] Michelle: Okay, a couple more questions. If you were given $1,000 to spend on your closest friend, what would you get them?

[56:39] Erika: Jewelry.

[56:41] Michelle: Wow. Lucky friend.

[56:42] Erika: Yeah. Very beautiful.

[56:45] Michelle: Okay. What would you do with one extra hour in a day?

[56:49] Erika: Just one? I'm going through all the different types of things going across my mind. Probably just more work.

[56:58] Michelle: I was going to say editing podcast episodes.

[57:00] Erika: No, no. That is the last thing I want to do for my extra hour. Thank you very much.

[57:07] Michelle: Maybe sleeping, resting. You need rest, girl.

[57:11] Erika: You're going out, working out. I don't know.

[57:15] Michelle: I love watching you on your walks, too. I think those are so important.

[57:20] Erika: Let me tell you since I started working from home, not at the bedside because, at the bedside, you at least know you're going to be walking about. And the only thing, well, not the only thing, but to stay healthy, you just need to keep, you know, your diet in check in whatever way that works for you, which is also difficult to do. But you at least know you're going to be active, walking around, working from home, I. I mean, I would just sit here all day, and I have done that before, where I just sit or if I'm driving a lot and I'm just sitting and. Michelle, no kidding. I don't feel good. I just don't feel good. I feel sick. I feel nauseous, I get headaches. It's not right. So when I posted that today on Instagram about getting healthy, and I mean it, like, that's how I actually feel. That's actually what I'm going through and what I want to do. And for me, what works best, how I feel best, is I work when I feel my best, I work out in the morning and I drink a ton of water all day. And if I. And by workout, it doesn't have to be some hard-hitting HIIT number. Go walking, whatever. Get up, get out, move your body, and then come back, eat my breakfast, and drink water. And I the effects that it has on my body physically, the effects that has on me mentally. I just. It has to. I have to make my health a priority. So thank you for saying that. It's the truth.

[58:51] Michelle: I love it. I do a lot of work on the computer. It's like, man, thank goodness I have my little watch. It's like, time to get up and move around, you know, go walk a thousand steps and then get back to it. But, yeah, it's so important.

[59:07] Erika: Yeah.

[59:07] Michelle: Well, you did fabulous in the five-minute snippet.

[59:10] Erika: Oh, did I?

[59:12] Michelle: Yes. Thank you so much for indulging me in that little bit of fun. And thank you so much, Erika, for just taking time out of your busy day to sit and talk with me. I really appreciate it.

[59:25] Erika: Of course. It was so nice speaking to you, and I've been wanting to for a while. I think this has been in the works for what, months now?

[59:32] Michelle: Yeah, we've had a little trouble getting to it, but, man, it was totally worth it.

[59:38] Erika: Yeah. So thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it.

[59:41] Michelle: Well, have a good rest of your evening.

[59:44] Erika: Okay, you too.