USAF Veteran Nurse, Captain Jennifer Savage-Cawley

[00:01] Michelle: As we approach Veterans Day this week, I want to introduce Captain Jennifer Savage-Cawley, a longtime friend and colleague who served as a nurse in the United States Air Force. Since starting this podcast, I've been eager to talk with a military nurse, and Jennifer made that possible. I was immediately curious to know, why did Jennifer choose the Air Force? Her response was hilarious and did not disappoint. Jennifer shared that military nursing can be challenging. It involves long hours, less-than-ideal locations, piles of paperwork, strong personalities, and the constant threat of deployment. Jennifer herself was deployed on a secret mission to Africa during Desert Shield. However, there are numerous benefits as well, such as becoming an officer and quickly climbing the ranks, having the military pay for your higher education, 30 days of vacation a year (yes, please), free housing and medical care, and the opportunity to travel the world on the military's dime. When you add up all those benefits, the pride of serving one's country trumps them all. Jennifer should be proud of the seven years she served in the United States Air Force. I certainly am. In the five-minute snippet, it's a hallmark Christmas, 24/7, 365. Here is Captain Jennifer Savage Cawley. Well, hey. Good morning, Jen. Welcome to the show.
[01:49] Jennifer: Well, good morning. It's great to be here.
[01:52] Michelle: I'm so excited for this interview because we've known each other for 40 years.
[02:00] Jennifer: Oh, yeah.
[02:01] Michelle: Many, 40-plus years.
[02:03] Jennifer: Yes.
[02:04] Michelle: So I'm so glad that we circled back again. And obviously, I've known you've been a nurse for a very long time because we worked at the same institution. And when I put out my call for I want to talk to a military nurse, you were like, hey. And I was so excited. Pick me. Pick me. That's right. And so today we're in studio C, which is my closet, which I love to do with people that are local because it's all nice and cozy, and technology-wise, it's a lot easier. So thank you again for joining me.
[02:43] Jennifer: Oh, absolutely.
[02:44] Michelle: So today we're going to talk about military nursing. It's something that I've had on my to-do list since I started the podcast because it's something that I don't have any experience with. I have very little knowledge about what goes on in medicine in the military because it's its own little thing, and then you add all these other things. So I'm excited to talk about it. Let's start out by just talking about how you came to be a nurse and then what you did before the military, and then we'll go from there.
[03:24] Jennifer: My mom was a nurse, so I followed in her footsteps. I went to San Francisco State right after high school, a four-year program. And then when I got out, I worked at Kaweah Delta. I came back home, worked at Kaweah Delta for two years, and then decided to go into the Air Force. I was on 2North, which was the surgical for then. And my supervisor sent three of us to Pennsylvania for a med/surg conference. Well, it was quite big, and I saw all these military nurses there, the different ones,  Air Force, Army, Navy. And I was very intrigued by them. So I went up and talked to them. They told me all the ins and outs about the military, and I actually chose the Air Force because of the uniform.
[04:14] Michelle: I love this story.
[04:16] Jennifer: The army was plain green with flat shoes.
[04:19] Michelle: Boring.
[04:20] Jennifer: Yeah. The Navy was all white, and I get food on my shelf all the time, so I couldn't do that. And then the Air Force had a light blue shirt, a Navy skirt, and shiny high heels.
[04:33] Michelle: It sounds so elegant when I picture that. I almost see, like, a flight attendant or something glamorous.
[04:42] Jennifer: I guess it was more prestigious to me at the time.
[04:46] Michelle: Definitely. I love that. Yeah, that's funny. You base your whole career on a uniform.
[04:54] Jennifer: Yes, I did. And I talked to the Air Force nurses, and they told me the ins and outs of everything. You get 30 days of vacation a year. You work 3, 12-hour shifts at a hospital, but they can call you in in the middle of the night for recalls, which is military training. And then you have all the military stuff you do, but it's basically working in the.
[05:21] Michelle: You know, you're young at that time. And did they talk about the travel opportunities?
[05:27] Jennifer: Yes, they talked about travel. I was able to go to England for two years. I was at Vandenberg Air Force Base for three here in California, went to England for two, and then I went to South Carolina for two. I had battlefield nursing training in Texas. I had OBGYN training in Mississippi. So they send you to different trainings all over the place.
[05:54] Michelle: Yeah. That's awesome. So did you have to do boot camp?
[05:59] Jennifer: No, we did what's called Mimso, which is military indoctrination for medical service officers. It was everyone that worked in the hospital, and it was a two-week course, basically. We learned how to salute the different ranks and how to march.
[06:15] Michelle: Okay. Was that difficult? Like, learning all the ranks? Yes.
[06:20] Jennifer: No, it was hard learning to salute.
[06:23] Michelle: It was?
[06:24] Jennifer: And at the time, I was a second lieutenant, brand new, and a captain made me get next to a wall with my nose to the wall and bring my hand up without scraping my knuckles to learn how to salute.
[06:36] Michelle: Okay, so we're all doing it wrong.
[06:38] Jennifer: Yeah. So you pop it straight up.
[06:40] Michelle: Wow. Okay. Yeah, because when I see people salute, it's definitely not that picture that you just painted. Wow, that's cool. So did you come from a military family?
[06:54] Jennifer: No. Well, my dad was in World War II and he wanted me to join the army. And at that time when I was first in college, I was like, there's no way I would do yeah. And he kept talking about the military and I'm like, nope, not going to happen.
[07:10] Michelle: That's funny. So you're new in the Air Force. You're learning everything that you need to do. You were already a nurse at this time?
[07:20] Jennifer: Yes.
[07:21] Michelle: So what rank did you enter as?
[07:23] Jennifer: I went in as an officer because I had my bachelor's degree and I was a second lieutenant.
[07:28] Michelle: Second lieutenant, is that like the bottom?
[07:31] Jennifer: That's the bottom of the officer list.
[07:33] Michelle: Okay.
[07:34] Jennifer: And they call them butter bars because it's a gold bar.
[07:38] Michelle: I love it. Oh my gosh. I'm going to be laughing through this whole time because something that when we think of the military, it's just such an honored institution and there are so many rules and discipline and we think of all of that and then of course you have the insider information in all these little quirky things. So this is going to be so fun for me to learn. So you entered as a second lieutenant, and then how do you advance?
[08:14] Jennifer: Well, it's pretty automatic. I think after two years you go to a first lieutenant, which is a silver bar. And then two to three years after that you put on captain.
[08:25] Michelle: Oh wow.
[08:26] Jennifer: But you have to do all your evaluations and you have to pass everything to get there and get recommendations for a Captain.
[08:33] Michelle: Okay.
[08:34] Jennifer: So I was a Captain when I got out.
[08:37] Michelle: Wow.
[08:38] Jennifer: Captain Savage.
[08:39] Michelle: Captain Savage. That's right. That's cool. Okay, so you are working in OB.
[08:47] Jennifer: I started out in OB, which I knew nothing about. When I was in college I did OB and I didn't do anything. I did med/surg. So they told me I was going to be an OB nurse.
[08:58] Michelle: Oh, so you didn't really have a choice.
[09:00] Jennifer: No, I was told where I was going to work.
[09:03] Michelle: Wow. And so when you got into it, did you like it? Did you regret it? Did you wish for something different?
[09:12] Jennifer: I liked it for a while, but I missed med/surg.
[09:16] Michelle: Okay. Yeah, because you had done med/surg all through school, and then when you got out of school, okay, you're just like, I don't want any of these screaming women.
[09:27] Jennifer: I didn't know nothing about birth and no babies.
[09:32] Michelle: That's so true. Right. That would be scary because it is a real specialty. Yes.
[09:39] Jennifer: And they sent me to called an OB short course. It was six weeks long at Keesler Air Force Base in Mississippi.
[09:47] Michelle: My mouth is like dropped open right now. Six weeks.
[09:50] Jennifer: Six weeks for an OB short course. And we learned how to deliver babies. They had us deliver babies. It was a very big hospital and they probably had 30 deliveries a day.
[10:02] Michelle: Okay. Wow.
[10:03] Jennifer: So all the students got to deliver a baby. We learned all the ins and outs of OB, all the specialty things. We worked in the NICU. So it was a great course.
[10:16] Michelle: That is, like some intensive training. I mean, NICU nurse, longtime NICU Nurse I could not imagine doing all that in such a short period of time.
[10:28] Jennifer: It was intense. It was intense.
[10:30] Michelle: So now you're working OB, and you're 3, 12's and so you kind of touched on that a little bit. One of my questions was, did you have mandatory overtime? Did they just say you're staying or you're coming back tomorrow? Like, on your day off?
[10:49] Jennifer: They could do that. They tried not to, but if they needed extra help, they might have to do that.
[10:54] Michelle: Okay.
[10:55] Jennifer: There were also times when I was sent to other bases for what they called Manning assistance. One nurse was paragliding and broke her leg. So they sent me to South Dakota to cover for her for a month.
[11:10] Michelle: And still in OB.
[11:12] Jennifer: Still in OB.
[11:13] Michelle: Okay.
[11:13] Jennifer: Because we had plenty of staff at Vandenberg.
[11:15] Michelle: Okay.
[11:16] Jennifer: So they were able to send me to South Dakota.
[11:19] Michelle: And how was that different from, like it was smaller?
[11:26] Jennifer: It was about the same as Vandenberg Air Force Base. It was about the same size and everything else now, all the military stuff is still the same. It's just a different place.
[11:37] Michelle: Yeah. So if you want to go back, like, if you're in the military, you want to go back for your master's or an advanced degree. Does the military provide nursing school or advancement? How does that work?
[11:57] Jennifer: There's chances to go back to nursing school, and the Air Force will pay for it. You have to qualify, of course. But I had a roommate who went back and got her master's through the Air Force.
[12:09] Michelle: Okay, that's really cool. And as a like, who are you in civilian nursing? We know, like, the know maybe the nurse practitioner, the PA, depending on where you're working. So is it the same in the military?
[12:31] Jennifer: It's pretty much the same. We had a manager of our floor. We had, like, a director of nurses, all the physicians. So it's pretty much the same. They have different names.
[12:43] Michelle: Okay. And they have their own rank?
[12:46] Jennifer: Yes.
[12:47] Michelle: So what would a physician be?
[12:49] Jennifer: Either a Captain, Major, or Lieutenant Colonel.
[12:53] Michelle: And for a manager, they would be like, the same thing.
[12:58] Jennifer: It depends on the size of the base.
[13:00] Michelle: Okay.
[13:00] Jennifer: Doctors could also be Full Bird Colonels. It just depended on the size of the base and how many people they had.
[13:07] Michelle: I've known you for a long time, and I know you have a very strong personality, and I mean that in the best way, because you have always been such an advocate for yourself, for your patients. You seem fearless in speaking out and speaking up, which I really admire because I do not have that trait at all. So how did that mesh with the military philosophy of just kind of like, shut up and do your job?
[13:45] Jennifer: I was asked to stand down a few times. Just a few.
[13:50] Michelle: See my question. Did you ever challenge a high-ranking officer? Yes. Okay.
[13:56] Jennifer: And I got in trouble for that.
[13:58] Michelle: What trouble?
[13:59] Jennifer: Well, I was just reprimanded.
[14:02] Michelle: Okay. Is it like and I got called in?
[14:05] Jennifer: A verbal and I got called into the office one time, the Colonel's office.
[14:10] Michelle: Okay.
[14:11] Jennifer: But not very much. And actually, our personalities melded well, and it was good for me. I liked how they did things.
[14:20] Michelle: In terms of, like, precision?
[14:23] Jennifer: Precision, and I like the structure.
[14:25] Michelle: Okay.
[14:25] Jennifer: I'm a structure person, so I really like the structure. It was very easy to follow.
[14:30] Michelle: Yeah. And that's another thing that the military is known for, the structure. So yeah. Talking about strong personalities, there is that structure in the military, and you're probably not the only person in the military with a strong personality.
[14:47] Jennifer: No.
[14:48] Michelle: It's probably made up of people with leadership qualities and those kinds of things, but you just have to kind of remember where you are in the ranking.
[15:02] Jennifer: So that you don't overstep your boundaries.
[15:04] Michelle: And then you as a Second Lieutenant and then going up as a Captain, you had people under you?
[15:12] Jennifer: Yes.
[15:12] Michelle: And so how did you treat those people?
[15:16] Jennifer: Well, I tried to treat them as I would be treated, but you had to follow military guidelines. So I had some people under me. I had to do their evaluations and their reviews, but everyone pretty much followed rank, so it wasn't a big problem.
[15:32] Michelle: They just kind of knew.
[15:34] Jennifer: Everyone kind of knew what the expectation.
[15:37] Michelle: So let's talk about deployment. So you worked in a time when there wasn't an active war going on. So could you have been deployed?
[15:50] Jennifer: Yes. Desert Shield. I was actually part of a team called Fast Team. It was flying ambulance, surgery, trauma. I had to wear a beeper the whole time I was there in England.
[16:01] Michelle: For anything that happened.
[16:02] Jennifer: If they had a peacetime emergency, it could be military or not. They called us when Lockerbie happened in Scotland went down. They called us to be ready to go. We were at the airport, and then they called and said there were no survivors. They needed the mortuary team.
[16:23] Michelle: Oh, wow.
[16:24] Jennifer: And then we did a mission for practice. We took two C-130s over to Africa. To Dakar, Senegal. And we had all the military. We had dentists, we had Navy, we had Special Forces, and we weren't sure what they were doing. It was a secret mission for them. We set up clinics, and medical clinics around three different cities. And we did surgeries. We had a surgery tent, so we set up all of our equipment.
[16:57] Michelle: So you were kind of like was it kind of like a M.A.S.H. unit? Yeah. I grew up watching M.A.S.H. Yeah. Hot Lips Hoolahan. I totally could see you with that one. Yeah. Such a great show for all you youngsters out there. Go binge all your M.A.S.H. episodes. It's amazing.
[17:20] Jennifer: So we set up medical clinics, and they had the Senegalese military guarding us because people would line up from the day before to see the American military, American medical help. And so we had, one of my favorite pictures is me surrounded by all these kids, and then you can see the guys with their guns standing behind us. So it was intense, but we saw a lot of people, a lot of people with headaches, women. And we'd see them leave, and they'd have a toddler, four-year-old on their back, and then they carried a tree on their head.
[18:03] Michelle: Well, no wonder. Like, I think I know where this headache is coming from. Oh, my gosh. Did you do any OB during that time?
[18:13] Jennifer: No.
[18:13] Michelle: Since you had that experience?
[18:14] Jennifer: I just did triage nursing. Each nurse had their own little cubicle, and they would send the patients in, and we would kind of triage. We were able to give Tylenol, aspirin, allergy medicine, stuff like that. But then if it was more than that, we sent them to the doctor.
[18:34] Michelle: How did the people react to you guys?
[18:36] Jennifer: Oh, they loved us. They loved us. Yeah. They waited for us. We did a lot of immunizations on kids, which is great. We did dental work, and eye exams. We did some small surgeries.
[18:50] Michelle: Wow. So you really have to know a lot about kind of everything. It's like you can't just go over there as an OB nurse with no other experience. Thank God you had your med/surg.
[19:03] Jennifer: I had to pull from all my experiences.
[19:06] Michelle: And then you might be asked to do something that you really don't have a lot of experience with, and you just wing it and do the best you can yeah. In that kind of situation.
[19:17] Jennifer: Yeah, we did a lot of winging it.
[19:19] Michelle: Wow. Okay. That's really interesting. Okay, so one of the things the military is known for, military government, is bureaucracy and paperwork. Is there a lot of that?
[19:35] Jennifer: Yes, there's paperwork for everything. If you needed some supplies, you had to do paperwork for it. Going on leave, taking a vacation, you had to do paperwork for it? It was paperwork for everything.
[19:50] Michelle: For everything.
[19:51] Jennifer: It was ridiculous.
[19:52] Michelle: So your patients are obviously military families, and what kind of insurance did they have with the military?
[20:03] Jennifer: Well, the military covers 100% of all medical wow. So everything was covered. So we have free medical, free dental, 30 days of vacation a year, and educational opportunities. They had what's called MWR Moral Welfare and Recreation offices. So, like, in South Carolina, they had a lake nearby so you could rent,  through the military, and rent boats. They had cabins, houseboats, different places, had different things, whatever the area offered.
[20:41] Michelle: Okay.
[20:41] Jennifer: And then a lot of times, like in England, they offered trips all over Europe.
[20:46] Michelle: Oh wow.
[20:47] Jennifer: So you could sign up for those and go on. It was so easy to travel, so I went to twelve different countries while I was there.
[20:54] Michelle: Oh my gosh, what an opportunity. Yeah, I mean, if nurses want to do that today, they obviously have to do it on their own dime or get into travel, nursing, and then that's a whole nother thing. But the military, that's why a lot of people go into it because they want to see the world. And obviously, that's one of the pitches that the military gives to potential people coming in is that travel thing. It's huge.
[21:29] Jennifer: Well, I use that as I pitch the Air Force a lot pitch the military. And in home health we have nurses follow us in the adult school programs and from COS and so they travel with a home health nurse for a day. And I always tell whoever travels with me, if you're single in your twenties and have two years of experience, you should try the military.
[21:52] Michelle: Oh, that's great.
[21:53] Jennifer: Because of travel experiences, just the structure, the training, the extra training, you get free medical, free dental. They have childcare. Yeah, just the experience of everything. Some people paint it as a bad thing and it's not.
[22:12] Michelle: Right.
[22:12] Jennifer: I really enjoyed it.
[22:14] Michelle: There's just so many benefits that I really didn't see. What about the pay as compared to a civilian nurse? Would you say it's comparable or not?
[22:26] Jennifer: I think it was less than the civilian nurse. But then we got allowances, like a COLA allowance, cost of living allowance, overseas.
[22:37] Michelle: Housing allowance, maybe some of those things.
[22:41] Jennifer: Mitigated the lower I think it actually equaled out. Okay, so young and single. I was making a lot of money.
[22:50] Michelle: Yeah, right. And you have very little things to pay for.
[22:55] Jennifer: Right.
[22:55] Michelle: Because your housing like are you staying on the base?
[22:59] Jennifer: I stayed outside the base, so I was able to buy a house on the economy, or rent a house actually.
[23:05] Michelle: Okay.
[23:05] Jennifer: Some people bought houses. There's such a turnover of military people. You can always have someone rent or buy your house.
[23:12] Michelle: Okay. So that's pretty easy to figure out. You were talking a moment ago about the allowances that the military gives for kind of getting out and doing things and that's part of work-life balance. So let's talk about mental health for a moment. In the military, is there an emphasis on mental health? Because we know it's tough, what you're doing. Nursing by itself, not being in the military is tough and then you have this added component on top of it. So did you personally suffer any mental health challenges? Did you know people who did? Were there therapists available?
[24:05] Jennifer: There was therapy available. They had a mental health clinic. There were some issues of people that had trouble with mental health that I knew but they had things available to you.
[24:17] Michelle: So I would imagine a lot of soldiers we hear about active duty, they come back and they have PTSD and depression and substance abuse and those things. And I think currently those things are really being looked at deeply, not just in the military and in medicine, just in society in general. I think maybe particularly the pandemic highlighted all of these mental health challenges, so we're looking at that now. But definitely, there are certain challenges in being in the military, and I would think that they would need to pay close attention to that.
[25:05] Jennifer: I think they do. I think it's better now and then. The VA is trying to accommodate all the people who have been deployed, so they're doing better at recognizing the signs and symptoms.
[25:17] Michelle: Yeah, you've talked about a few of them, but what would you say about some of the perks in the military that you were aware of or participated in? I mean, you have 30 days of vacation a year. You have travel, you have certain allowances that help mitigate maybe the lower pay so that it kind of evens out. What if you're stuck in a place that you don't particularly like? What if you went to South Dakota and you're just like, I can't take this snow and this darkness, and could you ask to leave and be stationed somewhere else? Or how does that work?
[26:06] Jennifer: You could ask, but pretty much if you have orders for a place, it's usually a two-year stance.
[26:12] Michelle: Two years?
[26:13] Jennifer: Yeah. And you can put in to move, but it's pretty much a two year.
[26:17] Michelle: So if you don't like it, you're just like, I'm going to have to find a way to like it. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Didn't know that. Well, for my listeners that are on the fence of, man, it sounds so good, but I don't know, convince me why I should be a military nurse.
[26:43] Jennifer: Well, when you're young and single, you need something to do. You're either going to end up in jail or you're going to be married with ten kids.
[26:51] Michelle: I love it. Okay.
[26:53] Jennifer: And that's another reason I joined. It was like I was bored and I needed a challenge. So it is challenging. I think the best perk is travel, and you can put in your request. I got every request for every base I put in.
[27:09] Michelle: Wow.
[27:10] Jennifer: So you can request where to go, and they really try to accommodate that.
[27:15] Michelle: So you could say, I want to go to Japan or Hawaii.
[27:19] Jennifer: I said I wanted to go to England, and they sent me there.
[27:22] Michelle: That's fantastic. I know that you have served your community here, your local community, as a nurse for 40 years, and that in and of itself is just astounding. So congratulations on that. And you're not done yet. You're still going, but what does it mean to have served your country?
[27:47] Jennifer: It was an absolute honor I'm so thrilled that I was able to do that, and it was my pleasure to serve the United States Air Force.
[27:57] Michelle: That's amazing. I'm so glad that we got to talk today. Yes. And I knew a little bit of your story, but nothing like just sitting down and talking about it. And so you've brought so much value to my audience, to me, about what it feels like, what it's like, what it means to be a military nurse, to care for these families, to have these relationships. So thank you so much.
[28:30] Jennifer: Oh, you're so welcome. I enjoyed being here.
[28:33] Michelle: Yes. It's been super fun, and it's going to get more fun. I was going to say it's going to get funner. And that's not right. That would be very wrong. So at the end, we do the five-minute snippet. Right? So I'm going to find my timer, and this is just so much fun. It's just a way for my audience to get to know Jennifer Cawley, just her off-duty side when she's not a Captain, when she's not a home health nurse, just you. So I will start my timer, and we're just going to have a lot of fun. Okay. Last thing you've done that you were really proud of.
[29:27] Jennifer: I've remodeled several rooms in my house, just paint and carpet, and I made a craft room.
[29:35] Michelle: Craft room. Oh, my gosh.
[29:38] Jennifer: I have a great craft room. I have a guest room now. I redid my bathroom and mermaids.
[29:44] Michelle: I saw that. Yes. So magical. Okay, cool. What do you do when you want to get out of your own head?
[29:54] Jennifer: I craft things. I have my dogs. I love Harry Potter.
[29:59] Michelle: Yay. Yes.
[30:00] Jennifer: I'm a big Harry Potter fan. Just being home and away from work, I'm able to come down.
[30:09] Michelle: Yeah.
[30:10] Jennifer: I'm able to separate.
[30:11] Michelle: Get in your zone. Okay. So this is a WYR. Would you rather have everyone you know be able to read your thoughts or for everyone you know to have access to your Internet history?
[30:27] Jennifer: Oh, they can have my Internet history. I don't want my thoughts out there. It's a mess in my head. I don't want everyone in there.
[30:37] Michelle: That's great. This one I love. For the rest of your life, would you rather give up air conditioning and heating or the Internet?
[30:47] Jennifer: Oh, that's a tough one. I like to be cool and warm.
[30:52] Michelle: Well, we live in a place that's, like, hot so many months of the year.
[30:57] Jennifer: And I love my Internet. That's my connection. I'd probably keep the Internet and do.
[31:02] Michelle: Without AC in you. Just tough it out. Okay.
[31:06] Jennifer: I run warm-blooded, so you can always put clothes on.
[31:10] Michelle: True.
[31:11] Jennifer: And when it's hot, you jump in the pool.
[31:13] Michelle: That's right. What is the main thing that influences your decisions? They're thought-provoking.
[31:23] Jennifer: I'm thinking hard. I think just knowing what is right from wrong. The hospital has all their policies and you want to follow those? And I don't know.
[31:35] Michelle: I think that's a great answer. Would you rather have a personal maid or a personal chef?
[31:42] Jennifer: Oh, maid, hands down. Clean my house.
[31:45] Michelle: Really?
[31:46] Jennifer: Yeah.
[31:47] Michelle: Oh, man. I need ideas for food. I'm so bland when it comes to making up my own ideas.
[31:56] Jennifer: I'm a good cook, and my instant pot is my best friend.
[32:01] Michelle: I have it, and I haven't mastered it yet.
[32:04] Jennifer: No, I do a lot with the instant pot.
[32:07] Michelle: Okay. Got to work on that. Here's another. Would you rather watch nothing but Hallmark Christmas movies or nothing but horror movies?
[32:17] Jennifer: Oh, Hallmark.
[32:18] Michelle: Yeah.
[32:18] Jennifer: I don't do horror.
[32:19] Michelle: Same. I could watch those Christmas Hallmark movies year-round.
[32:25] Jennifer: Christmas in July was awesome.
[32:27] Michelle: Yeah.
[32:27] Jennifer: When they changed it, I was so downhearted.
[32:30] Michelle: I know, right? Okay, last one. So this is a very deep question. Would you rather have a pause button in your life or a rewind button?
[32:46] Jennifer: I think a pause button.
[32:48] Michelle: Pause.
[32:49] Jennifer: Just pause. A lot of things I don't want to do again.
[32:53] Michelle: Yeah. And I was really thinking about this one. We have that in common, that we're both widows, and I immediately was like, oh, I would like to rewind to the time when he was still with me.
[33:07] Jennifer: Yes, I would like to rewind to that, but I don't want to have to go through that all over.
[33:14] Michelle: Right, right.
[33:15] Jennifer: So I think a pause button would be better for me.
[33:18] Michelle: I love it, and I love you, Jen. You have been in my life for so many years, and we see each other on Facebook or when we were at the hospital. We, hey, how are you doing? And it's just so nice to have you here with me and talking about things that are important to us as people and as nurses. And so, again, thank you so much for being here.
[33:50] Jennifer: Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thank you so much. And it's so good to be with you in your closet.