Adult Micro Preemie Survivor, Christina Gagnon

[00:00] MIchelle: Christina Gagnon was born at 25 weeks gestation weighing just 1 lb., 8oz. Now, this is incredible in its own right, but Christina was born in 1986 when micro preemies of her birth weight and gestational age only had a 14% chance of survival. And of the few that did survive often suffered the effects of extreme prematurity throughout their lives: blindness, asthma, cerebral palsy, and many others. In comparison, a baby born like Christina today would have an 80% chance of survival or better. And that fact is mainly due to the advances in research and technology that are afforded the modern-day NICU. Thankfully, Christina escaped many of the problems I just listed but still suffers from chronic sinus infections, PTSD, asthma, and a mild communication deficit. And the key word there is mild. I found her to be intelligent, intuitive, and very well-spoken. I love how she describes her mom, her lifelong advocate, as a warrior, and her message to adult micro preemies? Consider writing a book as she has, because the world needs to hear your perspective in the five-minute snippet. She really is a Swiftie. Here is Christina Gagnon.
[01:44] MIchelle: Hi, Christina. Welcome to the program.
[01:47] Christina: Hi, Michelle. Thank you so much for having me.
[01:50] MIchelle: Well, it's a pleasure. I first air quotes met you on Adam Wood's live. And, of course, Adam was my guest on the 31st episode of this show. I just really fell in love with you because of your message and just the way you spoke. You're so well-spoken and I really thought you can bring so much value to my audience of medical professionals. We need to know the viewpoint that you're going to give today, and that is from being a premature infant in the NICU. So why don't you just start by telling us your story of your NICU stay?
[02:37] Christina: Sure, absolutely. Well, it all happened when my mom was rushed over to the hospital with a friend. I believe my dad was at work and my sister was four at the time, so she stayed with our grandparents. My mother had a bloody show and she knew something was up and she called the hospital and they told her to go to the hospital. So she arrives there and they can't seem to find what's going on. They're checking all over the place and I believe the placenta was in the back. They noticed that there was a hole in the placenta and that I was a twin. I was the strongest of the two. My twin didn't make it. He was just some cells. I was the one that made it. And they said that I was a twin. And my mother was shocked because she was delighted that I was here but then also she had a miscarriage, so she didn't know whether to be excited or sad. Those mixed feelings, I want to say. My mom was in labor with me for 36 hours, and so they tried to keep me in, but I didn't want to stay in. So they had a doctor come in, and she was a NICU doctor, and she took the reins from there. She said, this is going to be a roller coaster, and this is going to be quite the roller coaster for you and your family. And it still is, even today. But my mom couldn't hold me right away because she was out from anesthesia. When she was out from anesthesia, she was brought back to the room with other mothers who have their babies. And my mother was alone with my dad, and she didn't really have a lot of 'it's a girl' type of happy balloons. It was nothing there. So I was being poked and prodded by doctors and nurses in an incubator. It was a lot of trial and error for me back then, a lot, because there wasn't any technology that there is today. Everything was, well, let's see if this happens, and if it doesn't happen, let's try this and this. And so with that, I am a product of trial and error. So I dealt with a lot of diseases and infections in the NICU. I had NEC three times and collapsed lungs 44 times. At two weeks old, I needed to have open heart surgery done for a heart murmur, benign heart murmur. And so I had this big scar on my back from it. And with that, I had PDA ligation. My lungs wouldn't produce surfactant, so it was really difficult for me to breathe. And I do have asthma, but it's what's well controlled now. And I had a lot of heel sticks, a lot of monitors around me. It really wasn't the way I wanted to be brought into this world with all the doctors and nurses in my face all the time. And my home was the NICU for 212 days. And being in the NICU was difficult for my mom because she dealt with a lot of doctors and nurses.
[06:23] MIchelle: Well, let me ask you a question, Christina. Yes, that's a lot. I mean, it's a miracle that you are actually here speaking with me today. So that's amazing. And your will to survive and thrive is evident. You say that your mom spoke medical ease, and how do you think that affected her relationships with the staff in the NICU?
[06:53] Christina: Well, some loved it, and my mom took a lot of notes and asked a lot of questions, while some of them did not like it, so they were very threatened. I remember the Chief of Neonatology at another hospital I was transferred to. He didn't like it at all. He said to my mother, "We'll be the doctors, you'll be the parents. Have a good day."  And he was just a real idiot to my mom, and he was really arrogant. And one time he actually slapped his clipboard on my incubator in the NICU. Wow. Yeah. And my mother was furious with him, and he was just a rude man. He always looked at his shoes. He was just impossible to work with. And so my mom stuck it through. She knows a lot about me, more than I know myself, actually. She knows a lot of medical terminology, even today.
[08:02] MIchelle: I imagine she learned really quickly when you were in the NICU, and she just has continued throughout your life to know what's going on with you and to be able to communicate that to your providers. I'm really sorry that you and your mom had that relationship and that experience with a medical professional. There's no excuse for that. He seemed very unhappy, and maybe not in the right profession.[08:35] Christina: I agree, but sadly, he is no longer with us, because right after I left that hospital, he had a heart attack and died. I mean, I'm sorry that that happened to him, but just well...
[08:49] MIchelle: I did want to talk about advocacy, and you were born in 1986, and there wasn't a lot of press on what we call health literacy. And knowing about your own health, knowing what to ask your doctor for, knowing how to advocate for your child. There were a lot of rules that were really archaic. We didn't let moms stay with their babies very long. When I started as a pediatric nurse in 1986, we didn't let parents stay the night with their sick kids in the hospital. So imagine being a sick kid, which you were a lot, and being admitted to the hospital, and your parents being told to go home and come back in the morning, and you're there alone in a strange place, you're not feeling well. The things that we did were not good, and they caused a lot of harm. Thankfully, there's been a lot of press today about those things, and your mom was just ahead of her time in terms of advocating for you and being able to communicate that to the providers. And I will say, as a nurse for many years, sometimes at first, we're kind of taken off guard when a parent or a family starts using a lot of medical terminology. And I think that we could do better in that area. As healthcare professionals, I think sometimes we're just taken off guard and we have to stop and say and know that this parent is really speaking up for their child. And we respect that 100%. And we can change, and we have changed, and there's definitely more work to do in that area. But man, your mom sounds like a real tiger.
[10:56] Christina: Oh, she is, trust me. Oh, my gosh. She is the mama bear, let me tell you. She didn't really take time for herself at all. She had me in the hospital. My sister, who was four at the time, and my dad, who was new at his job and which was like 2 hours away from where we lived, and this was in New York. And so a lot of back and forth for my dad and then my sister and my NICU doctors and nurses would say, "Mrs. Gagnon, why don't you just take some time for yourself? " And she never did want to leave because she always would want to be there for me. And she hated leaving the hospital without me because no one had cell phones back then, and you don't know what would happen on the drive home. Anything could have happened on the way home. And so you're always on pins and needles. But my mother, as I said, would take notes. She would ask a lot of questions. She really advocated for me back then. Also. There wasn't any skin-to-skin with your preemie, but that wasn't even heard of. They had to treat me like I was on a porcelain doll. They had to be really careful with me.
[12:27] MIchelle: I'm happy that those things have changed, and you're absolutely right. Those things weren't common back then. And thankfully, through research,  we know the benefits of skin-to-skin and family-centered care and all of those things that we do now routinely in the NICU with the very smallest and sickest, and most fragile of babies. And I'm sorry you didn't get that experience. And I'm sorry your mom didn't get that experience. What we do know is that many parents with babies in the NICU for extended periods of time have a lot of comorbidities that go along with that. They experience some post-traumatic stress. Do you think that your parents experienced that?
[13:21] Christina: I've asked them that, and they did not. My mother did not have a postpartum either. She kicked that to the curb. She said, "I don't have time for this."  I was more important than something like postpartum depression or PTSD. She really fought for me.
[13:44] MIchelle: Yeah, that's evident. Well, let's talk for a second about your sister. So you said your sister was four at the time. And talk about your relationship with her and maybe things that she's told you from her experience of being the sister of a very premature child.
[14:06] Christina: Sure. Well, my sister, her name is Barbara, and she was very different from your typical four-year-old. She never asked any questions. She was very quiet. She wouldn't be in the NICU for a long time, let's say about 30 minutes, and then she would leave because it was really tough on a kid's eyes, especially a young kid at the age of four. I and her have been extremely close. Even now, we're still very close to each other. We take care of each other always. And Barbara was my first playmate after I got home from the NICU. She would try to play with me, and at the time, I really wouldn't play back because I was looking around the room in my own little post-preemie funk, and she would try to play with me and try to make me laugh, until one day, she actually did make me laugh. And let me tell you something, Michelle. She's been making me laugh ever since I was a baby. We really have a strong, unique relationship.
[15:22] MIchelle: That's awesome. I have two sisters, and the sister relationship is very special. I would imagine that your sister, at the time of your birth, she was four, and she could see what was going on. She could see that your mom was gone a lot. She could see that they were probably worried. She could see for herself when she visited you kind of how vulnerable you were. I would imagine that would cause a little bit of anxiety in a four-year-old.
[15:58] Christina: She didn't have any anxiety at all. She took it like an adult. Did she ask questions? I don't think she asked any questions, but what I do know is that she thought that's how all babies were handled. That's what she thought. But she was very careful with me. Like I said, she took it like an adult. She knew that it was extremely important, that I was extremely important. And she still advocates for me when I have trouble communicating with something. She knows me. She knows how I think, and she's patient.
[16:41] MIchelle: Yeah. What a wonderful thing to have in a relationship. Well, let's talk for a moment about something that you may have heard about you may not have. It's called vulnerable child syndrome. Have you heard of that?
[16:55] Christina: I have not.
[16:57] MIchelle: Okay. So vulnerable child syndrome that's when a child is sick or recovering from a life-threatening illness, in your case, it would be being born premature and spending a lot of time in the NICU, going home, and having to go back and forth to doctors, having medical problems, all of that. But what happens is the parent really develops this, like, a very strong sense that the child is vulnerable, and it leads to a pattern of being very overprotective. So do you think growing up, that your parents were overprotective, or did they just let you do things that other kids did?
[17:46] Christina: They let me do things that other kids did. They were protective of me and my sister always. They weren't helicopter parents. They let us be kids.
[18:01] MIchelle: One of the things is that, like you said, helicopter parents. And I think one of the best things that parents can do for a child like yourself is to, as much as possible, just treat them like just a very normal child and let them have all those experiences that children do. Don't keep them in a bubble. And it sounds like that's what your parents did, and I think that's led to your success today as an adult.
[18:32] Christina: Well, speaking of childhood, if you don't mind me talking about that sure. I started going to school at two years old because if I wouldn't, I would fall back mentally. So I was put on a bus at two, and I would go to a school at a hospital, in a hospital for kids who needed help. And I was with therapists all the time. They would come to my house and do therapy at my house. Yes. And in fact, when I got home from the NICU with my parents, immediately in the driveway were three therapists at the door.
[19:17] MIchelle: What a greeting!
[19:18] Christina: Yeah. I never had any Mommy and Me time ever. Growing up, I always thought my mom was the bad guy because she was the one taking me to the doctors and the therapists. I was a very angry child because of the prematurity. So at age two, I'd go to school. Like I said, I was an angry child a lot because it was brought on by confusion from the prematurity, because I had to go to the doctor's appointments all the time.
[19:56] MIchelle: Yeah. And the doctor's appointments mean tests and blood drawn and pain. And you're looking at your mom like, why aren't you saving me from these people?
[20:10] Christina: Like I said, I always thought she was the bad guy when I knew she wasn't. Until one day I come into my room at two and I see all these bows in my room, and I said, "Who are these for?"  And she said, "These are for you."  And I said, "Who gave these to me?"  And she said, "I did."  And that was the first time I ever hugged my mother. That was the first time I was her baby. It was a lot between me and her, and she understood what I was going through. It was a lot of doctor's appointments. And as for pain, I'm used to it. I didn't flinch at all with pain because when I was a preemie, what I dealt with, I lost all my toes on my left foot due to gangrene. And that's real pain, not some shot.
[21:08] MIchelle: Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of the long-term effects of being in a NICU, the long term and the short term. So I saw that you said that when you were five, you had scar revision surgery yes. And that you suffered some post-traumatic stress from that. Do you want to talk about that?
[21:33] Christina: Yeah, sure. Well, I had a keloid on my right anterior thigh that was from an IV that got infected, and there was a blood clot that transferred to my foot that landed, I'm sorry, that transferred to my left foot that led me to have gangrene. So with the scar revision surgery, I had to have that done, because if I wouldn't, blood would come out when I would grow and I would hemorrhage and die. So my parents thought about it, and at five, I had that surgery done. And it was terrifying. I had it done at Shriners in Tampa, Florida, and I felt like I was there for a month, even though it was just ten days. The surgery itself was terrifying because I had no idea what was going on there. I have this oxygen mask on me. It smells terrible. I can see the medicine working, and I'm looking up at my doctor, and he looks like Big Bird from the medicine. And I was just a mess until the surgery started. Now when I was out from the medicine, my mom was able to see the surgery happen. She said to the doctor, she said, "How am I supposed to take care of Christina without me knowing how to take care of her?"  And the doctor agreed. He said, "Okay, you can't touch anything, but we will let you see how the surgery goes." And so she was right up there, right by me, as the surgeons did this skin graft yet skin graft surgery, and they used some skin from my butt, and they put it on my right interior thigh, and they used something that looked like a cookie cutter, and so they did that. My mother never talked with them. She let the doctors do what they needed to do, and she saw them manipulate me in certain ways that were very, I guess, ornate. And it's something that you shouldn't see on your child being done, especially at a young age. And after the surgery was completed, she saw me all bandaged up and everything, and she cried. The surgery was a success, but it was very tough for her to see me in that kind of state. And with that, after the surgery, I had to relearn how to walk. I was in a wheelchair over the summer of 1991, and I needed to learn how to walk, and I had to have therapy. And my mom took my bandages off for me. She put new ones on every single day. And it was tough on a five-year-old.
[24:51] MIchelle: I can imagine. And ten days in a hospital for a five-year-old definitely would seem like a month. And all those things that you just described are very frightening.
[25:04] Christina: Yeah.
[25:04] MIchelle: I have a question, why do you think your mom wanted to see the surgery?
[25:08] Christina: She wanted to see how to take care of me. The doctors let her see what was happening, and they didn't have to. And they let her see the whole surgery.
[25:24] MIchelle: Yeah. And I would think that that would be kind of traumatizing for your mom, too, to see you go through that. It's like being retraumatized again from the stay in the NICU.
[25:35] Christina: Well, I don't think she had PTSD from it. I did. I have nightmares from it every single day, even when I was in the hospital from it until now. And I still have some dreams about the surgery, or they might be surgery related. And in some dreams, I can still feel the pressure of the bandages on my scar. And it just seems so real. It's like I'm back in recovery from surgery again, on my scar. Doctors were supposed to do another surgery for that scar, but to make it look more like my left thigh, make it look regular. They were supposed to put medical balloons in there. And one day when I was a little bit older, I said, no, you've had your fun enough. Quit poking and prodding at me. And I declined the surgery. I said my scar has been with me since I was five. It's a part of me. It's not going to leave me. And they were shocked. My mother was so shocked at what I said, she cried.
[26:54] MIchelle: That was the first time you spoke up for yourself, really?
[26:57] Christina: Yes. And I was 14, 15. Yeah.
[27:02] MIchelle: So we just talked about PTSD. Is there anything that you've done to help heal that? Have you seen a therapist talk about that?
[27:14] Christina: Yes, I do have a therapist, and I have talked to him about it, and he said that what I went through, it was all normal. And here's the thing with PTSD, it happens when it happens. There is no way of stopping it. I'm always going to have trauma from that event. It might go away when I'm older as having less dreams about it, but it's still going to be there because it's a part of me, even though it was 30-something years ago.
[27:48] MIchelle: Yeah. You're going to learn how to manage it, basically.
[27:52] Christina: Yeah. And that's all I can do.
[27:55] MIchelle: Well, let's talk about trauma for a minute. So, one of the resources that I had as a NICU nurse and a developmental care nurse was a great book written by Mary Coughlin, and it's called Trauma-informed NICU Care. And it's actually free on Google Books, and I will link that in the show notes. But if you've heard of trauma-informed care, what that is, is it's for medical professionals and others to be able to recognize or anticipate situations that could be traumatic to the patient, to the family, to the mother. So forth and to try to mitigate some of those bad effects of the trauma or even remove the trauma, if you at all possibly can. So this book, I feel like it should be read by every NICU professional because it really talks about all the things that you touched on with your mom going through not leaving the NICU with you, growing up, experiencing PTSD from your problems that you had from being a premature infant. It's really great. Again, I'm going to link it in the show notes because it's worth reading and it's free on Google Books, so why not? But trauma is a real thing. It's a real thing for NICU families, and it's real for anybody that's experienced any type of trauma, whether it's physical, psychological, whatever it is. And definitely, PTSD can be a byproduct of that trauma. And that's what we're trying to prevent as trauma-informed professionals. So I just really wanted to touch on that.
[30:00] Christina: Thank you.
[30:02] MIchelle: Yeah. And there's a picture that you posted on your Instagram, and it's of you on a warming bed. And I'm looking at it right now, and it looks like maybe you're a week old or maybe a little bit older than that, but there's no developmental positioning. There's no special mattress that you were laying on because, in 1986, we didn't have those we didn't have developmental positioners for the head so that your head would grow into a normal shape. We didn't have those positioners to put you on your side and position your shoulders so that you wouldn't have shoulder retractions. And so as a NICU professional, knowing all of what we have now to prevent that and then seeing this picture of you, it made me really sad because you didn't have that. And thankfully, now so many premature and sick babies have all those tools, and they have access to physical therapists and occupational therapists in the NICU, and they have NICU professionals that have been trained on how development really affects you through your whole life. So that's another thing that I wanted to talk about. Talk about some of the ways that you said you have asthma and some of the lasting effects from being a preemie.
[31:44] Christina: Well, what I do know is that my sinuses are underdeveloped that are from prematurity. And this was about two or three years ago because I deal with a lot of sinus infections and I have a lot of sinus pressure about all the time. And so I had an MRI done, and they noticed that my sinuses were underdeveloped. So there is that.
[32:13] MIchelle: Any problems with your vision?
[32:15] Christina: I wear glasses. As a micro-preemie,  I also had ROP, and RLF. It never went to full retinal detachment. I see fine. The disease fixed itself. I had this doctor that kept on screwing up the stages of the disease, and he never got it correct. And he wanted to use cryotherapy on me. And at the time, cryotherapy was brand new. It was still in its early stages of development. And it's like he basically wanted to use me as a lab rat. And my parents were against that. We're like, no, she's not going to be a candidate for cryotherapy. They went to go see this other doctor, and he was out of the insurance network, and he decided to come and see me. And he said he looked at my eyes and he said, oh, she's fine. The disease fixed itself. And my mother cried so hard because I was supposed to be in a vegetative state, blind, hooked up to machines in some institution that was supposed to be my life.
[33:33] MIchelle: Yeah, that's what we knew back then. Because like you said in your bio in 1986, being a 25-weeker, you had about a 14% chance of survival.
[33:46] Christina: Yes.
[33:47] MIchelle: And so you just kept, you know, blowing everybody away with all of your successes, and those were kind of unheard of at the time. So that's just, again, miraculous. Thank you. I saw that you were featured in the Preemie World newsletter. And who was that doctor with you? Was that your neonatologist?
[34:11] Christina: Yes, that was my neonatologist.
[34:14] MIchelle: Tell me about that. Tell me about her.
[34:16] Christina: Well, her name is Dr. Kathleen Meyer, and she is someone who is very near and dear to me. One day, I decided to call her, and I told her who I was, and she remembered who I was. Michelle, let me back this up. I'm in the timeline with her. When I graduated high school in 2006, I went up to Massachusetts, where I was born, and I went to the hospital where I was born, and I got to see my NICU nurse, and I got to see Dr. Meyer. And when I got up to tell the receptionist who I was, she was there. And she said, Can I help you? And I said, yeah. And I told her my name, and she goes, oh, my God, I know who you are. I helped you. And so it was her and another doctor that helped me in the NICU. And my NICU nurse, Michelle, we lost contact for a few years. And back in I want to say it was 2018, I gave her a call, and I told her who I was, and she remembered me. And we've been close as family because we talk to each other on a regular basis. And my NICU nurse said Dr. Meyer is retiring. Is it possible if you could come and surprise her? So the day of her retirement party, I went there with my mom, and I surprised her, and she gave me the hugest hug imaginable, I couldn't even breathe, the hug was so tight. And so at the retirement party, I got to meet other doctors that took care of me, and I was the only former patient there. And this was about a room of, like, 150 people, and these were all successful doctors from the New York, Massachusetts area. And here I am making a speech, and they're getting to look at their end result, which they don't get to see, because when you have your baby, either the baby passes away, or they go to their families and they're never seen ever again. And I wanted to do something different. I wanted to know my doctor for who she was because, to me, she's more of someone with a white coat and a clipboard signing prescriptions. She's someone who has a family, and she has hobbies. She runs. She spends time with her granddaughter. And there's so much more to her than her being a NICU physician. And so she and my nurse Michelle, and another doctor, Dr. Shaw, they're all very important to me. And there are other nurses I got to meet that took care of me. And they all knew exactly who I was. And they were coming up at me with shock and awe on their faces saying, I remember helping you and you were a baby and I remember you.
[37:47] MIchelle: Yeah. That is thrilling for NICU professionals. And like you said, we don't get to experience that very often. Many times, probably 99.9% of the time, the patients that we care for, we don't know the outcome.
[38:06] Christina: No, you don't. And then you forget about the patient. I wanted to do something different and they're all very important to me, all those doctors and nurses.
[38:22] MIchelle: Well, they cared for you.
[38:25] Christina: They did. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here without them.
[38:31] MIchelle: Yeah. And they cared for you in the sense that they actually provided care for you, that you needed to grow and thrive. But the other thing is, they cared about you. They cared about you, they cared about your family. And that's a different vibe because anybody can do all the mechanical things and the tasks that we need to do to care for our patients. But to really care about your patient means you're putting your heart into it. That means you're putting your soul into it. That means you're investing yourself in the success of this child, of this family. And then to be able to see this child and family grown up as an adult is just such an amazing thing and it's such a treat. And I'm so glad that you got to experience it, and I'm so glad that your caregivers got to experience that too. Very special.
[39:32] Christina: Thank you. Also, in 2006, when I met my NICU doctor, I also got to meet the doctor that delivered me and we talked briefly and he said, I remember you and I remember your parents. And he said I tell this to every single one of my patients. He says I tell your story to each and every patient of mine.
[39:59] MIchelle: Wow.
[40:00] Christina: So with that, I'm also saving unborn babies because of my story.
[40:07] MIchelle: When people hear your story, they're going to be, first of all, inspired. They're going to be awed by the fact that you are even here to talk about it since the odds were against you. And when medical professionals hear your story, they're going to really think about how they can do things differently in the care of the families and the children that they care for. And that's the end result. That's exactly what we want, right?
[40:41] Christina: Yeah, absolutely.
[40:43] MIchelle: Yeah. So your story has been really valuable to a lot of people. And so as we kind of wrap things up, I want you to tell me what's your message for, first of all, medical professionals out there. What do you want to say to them?
[41:02] Christina: First of all, I want to personally thank them because I wouldn't be here without the trial and error and the medications that they did for me, even the blood drawn, I wouldn't be here because of them almost 40 years down the road, because without them, because without them, I probably wouldn't have survived.[41:25] MIchelle: And what's your message for the parents of babies in the NICU, or babies that have been in the NICU and now they're growing up? What's your message for them?
[41:37] Christina: Well, for the parents, I want to tell them, don't be scared to write notes down, to ask a ton of questions, to speak medicalese, to really get in there, be there for your baby, 24/7, like my mother was. And if the doctor gets arrogant at you, you push back because you have to fight for your baby. That's what you're there for.
[42:10] MIchelle: Right? And you're going to take your child home and care for them for a lifetime. And we as medical professionals are not going to do that.
[42:21] Christina: Yes, exactly.
[42:23] MIchelle: Yeah. We have you for a very small time and your parents have you for life. So I like your message of advocacy.
[42:31] Christina: Thank you. Thanks.
[42:35] MIchelle: One book that I also wanted to touch on is a book called Preemie Voices by Saroj Saigal. And this is a book that I got when I became a developmental nurse and you might be interested in it Christina, I'll link it in the show notes. It's a book filled with stories from adults that were micro-preemies just like yourself. And these adults were all in their thirty s and forty s, and they all came from one hospital in Alberta, Canada. When I read that book, it just gave me a window into how the results of what we're doing today with you in the NICU, what they're going to look like in 20, 30, 40 years. And we need to be on our game of how we're treating premature infants. It's a very inspiring book. Some of the people in the book have a lot of problems. Some of them are blind from retinopathy of prematurity, some of them are deaf, some have cerebral palsy, and some have no problems at all. So there's a wide range. Some of them are business people, and some have had families. And it's just a great book to see things that we as NICU professionals don't get to see because we don't have follow-up. So I would highly recommend that book, and again, I will link it in the Show Notes. But as we wrap up, what is your message for all those adults out there, or teenagers or young people that were preemies and spent time in the NICU? What's your message for them?
[44:30] Christina: Well, first of all, I do want to say that don't be scared, get your story out because I've written my autobiography and it's done. Here's the thing. The thing is that most books come from the parent's perspective and not from the one that's actually gone through it. Yes, the parents have gone through it, but not day by day, minute by minute, like the preemie has. And they should chronicle their events into notes and they should write a book. They should let some air out of their tires and not be scared to tell the world about themselves.
[45:17] MIchelle: Yeah. That's how we get the word out, right?
[45:19] Christina: Exactly.
[45:20] MIchelle: I mean, if we keep it to ourselves, nobody else can benefit from all the lessons that you can give.
[45:30] Christina: Exactly. And I just want to help people, I want to help.
[45:33] MIchelle: Well, I hear that from you, and I think that's such a great thing. After all that you've been through, your mission to help people is just selfless, and I think it's wonderful. And I've really enjoyed talking to you, Christina.
[45:53] Christina: I have enjoyed talking to you too, Michelle.
[45:56] MIchelle: Yeah. So, you know, at the end, we do the five-minute snippet, and this is just a fun way for everybody to get to know Christina just in a relaxed way. So are you ready to play that?
[46:10] Christina: Yes. I'm very excited.
[46:14] MIchelle: Well, I know a little bit about you because you told me some of your hobbies and stuff, and so that's where these questions come from. Do you have a favorite poet and why is that person your favorite?
[46:35] Christina: Well, I do have a favorite poet. I would say, Emily Dickinson and Edgar Allen Poe. Yeah. They're classics. And they're timeless.
[46:47] MIchelle: So different.
[46:48] Christina: Yeah. And they never go out of style.
[46:50] MIchelle: I love it. Okay, this is a WYR question.
[46:54] Christina: Okay.
[46:55] MIchelle: Would you rather live among the clouds or beneath the ocean?
[47:02] Christina: Above the clouds, so I could see everything. I want to have a good view of what I'm looking at.
[47:09] MIchelle: I second the motion. Okay. I know that you're a Taylor Swift fan.
[47:15] Christina: Yes.
[47:16] MIchelle: So this is some Taylor Swift trivia.
[47:18] Christina: Okay.
[47:19] MIchelle: What is Taylor Swift's middle name?
[47:22] Christina: Alison.
[47:23] MIchelle: Oh, my gosh. You really are a fan. I learned so much looking up Taylor Swift trivia.
[47:33] Christina: How can you not love Taylor Swift? Everybody loves her.
[47:37] MIchelle: She's pretty magical. Okay, here's another WYR. Would you rather make one person's dream come true or buy lunch for ten starving kids?
[47:52] Christina: Here's what I would do. I would make ten starving kids' wishes come true by treating them to lunch. That's what I would do.
[48:01] MIchelle: I love it.
[48:02] Christina: I think that's what they would wish for.
[48:04] MIchelle: It's kind of a no-brainer.
[48:06] Christina: Yeah.
[48:07] MIchelle: Okay, finish this sentence. The best thing about my mom is: she's a warrior. If anybody looked up warrior in the dictionary, your mom's picture would be there.
[48:20] Christina: That's funny because I've written that in my book.
[48:25] MIchelle: Wow.
[48:27] Christina: It's like you basically took something from my book. That's what I have to find my mother. So you hit the nail on the head, Michelle.
[48:36] MIchelle: Good for you. Yeah. Now I want you to send me the name of your book again. I know it's not published, and I'm going to put it in the show notes. So if any publishers are out there and can connect with you, that would be awesome.
[48:48] Christina: Sure. Absolutely.
[48:50] MIchelle: Okay, so here's another Taylor Swift. We have two minutes. Who was Taylor Swift named after?
[48:58] Christina: Hold on. I just saw this the other day. Oh, gosh. I can't remember the answer to this question.
[49:08] MIchelle: Do you want me to tell you?
[49:10] Christina: Tip of my tongue? Yeah, go ahead.
[49:13] MIchelle: James Taylor.
[49:14] Christina: Right.
[49:17] MIchelle: I didn't know that either.
[49:19] Christina: Yes, I forgot. Yes, that is correct.
[49:23] MIchelle: All right. What instantly makes you not like someone?
[49:29] Christina: I get this feeling of just not liking them. It could be if they're creepy or there's something about their vibe, something that just throws me off about a person. And I'm not a person that really complains about someone. If I don't like someone, I will say something. My grandfather was like that, my mom's father. So I guess that's been brought down to me.
[49:57] MIchelle: It's in the family.
[49:58] Christina: It is in the family. But, yeah, that's what I would do. If I don't like someone, I would have bad vibes in me, and I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to stay clear away from you. I don't like the way you feel. You need to go away.
[50:16] MIchelle: What would you do with one extra hour in your day? 40 seconds.
[50:23] Christina: I would want to just stay with my family because no one knows me better than them. And I love being with my family. Yes. All of my family members, not just my immediate family, so all of them.
[50:39] MIchelle: It makes your life rich, right?
[50:41] Christina: Yeah, it really does.
[50:42] MIchelle: Okay, last question. Would you rather have a white Christmas or a tropical Christmas?
[50:47] Christina: White Christmas. There is nothing more magical than a white Christmas, which is something I've got to experience a couple of times, and it's just so lovely, and it's magical, and there's nothing like it on this earth.
[51:05] MIchelle: I want to experience that. I live in California, so where I live, we don't have snow, so it would be really awesome.
[51:14] Christina: I used to live in Fresno.
[51:16] MIchelle: Oh, my gosh. I only live about an hour from there in Visalia.
[51:19] Christina: Oh, that's hysterical. Wow.
[51:22] MIchelle: We were so close.
[51:23] Christina: Yes, we were. I haven't been there in, like, 13, 14 years.
[51:28] MIchelle: Wow. Well, we are out of time, and it has just been such a joy to talk to you. Christina. I thank you for everything you're doing. I thank you for your advocacy for yourself and for everyone out there that is experiencing trauma or the lasting effects from being in the NICU. And just your story about your strength and your attitude. Your attitude is just something else. I think a lot of people would be really angry, and I know you went through a period of that, but just to move into an attitude of service, like, I want to get the word out. I want other people to experience the life that I am now experiencing. I think that's great.
[52:21] Christina: Yeah. I want to shed the light on the darkness. That's what I want to do.
[52:27] MIchelle: Well, you've certainly done that today. I really appreciate you being here.
[52:31] Christina: You're very welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Michelle.
[52:35] MIchelle: You are welcome. And you take care.
[52:37] Christina: You too.
[52:38] MIchelle: Thank you.
[52:39] Christina: You're welcome. Bye.