School Nurse Victoria Gutierrez

[00:00] Michelle: I had so much fun talking with school nurse Victoria Gutierrez. Honestly, I was enchanted by her excitement and enthusiasm, and I know you will be, too. The skills she learned as an ICU nurse, critical thinking, organization, and delegation have served her well in her role as a school nurse. Although she misses the acuity of the ICU, she's not out on the joy she has found in this niche nursing specialty. She schools us in the education required, responsibilities, challenges, and rewards. And, oh, don't forget that awesome schedule. Her advice for those who are curious about school nursing try subbing part time as she did before you commit to becoming credentialed. I'd say that's a pretty good lesson in the five minute snippet. Get that garden growing girl. Here is Victoria Gutierrez. You're listening to the conversing nurse podcast. I'm the Shell, your host. And this is where together we explore the nursing profession one conversation at a time.
[01:14] Michelle: Well, good morning, Victoria. Welcome to the show.
[01:17] Victoria: Thank you.
[01:19] Michelle: I have been really excited to talk to you, and we've had a few scheduling issues and sound issues, and so I'm really excited that we get to talk today because I think at one time or another, I'm going, to go out on a limb here and say a lot of nurses have considered school nursing, but maybe we didn't really know what was involved. And so that's why you're here today, to kind of bring us up to speed on everything, school nursing. So thank you so much for being here.
[01:56] Victoria: I'm excited to be here. I love school nursing, so any chance I get to really spread the word on what an awesome little niche of nursing it is, it's a good opportunity.
[02:07] Michelle: So I found out that the first school nurse was Lena Rogers, and that was in 1902, and she was in the New York City schools. And they did that as a way to kind of improve health outcomes. So that was just a little bit of trivia that I wanted to start with. But just start by telling our listeners. How did you get started in nursing?
[02:32] Victoria: In nursing in general or school nursing?
[02:34] Michelle: Yeah, just in nursing in general.
[02:37] Victoria: My brother, well, he actually recently retired, but he was a fireman paramedic, and he got me very interested in medicine. He was an ACLS instructor, and so there was always just like, he'd come home with those stories. There's a bit of an age gap between my brother and I, but he really got me interested in medicine. And then he kind of opened my eyes into nursing because he would always say, nursing is so diverse, you can go into so many different areas that it would be hard to be unhappy in that profession. And if you can handle all of the stuff that comes along with nursing, because you do have to have a strong stomach in a lot of areas, that it's a great thing. So I started volunteering in the hospital when I was young, and I candy-striped at a local hospital, and I really loved it. It gave me exposure to all different areas of the hospital, and I really knew that nursing would be a good fit for me.
[03:34] Michelle: Well, that's such an interesting story. I think there's so many parallels there because my older brothers were both surgical technologists, and they were working at the hospital and coming home and, like, your brother telling stories, and we were all just enthralled. And then they went on to become nurses, and that's kind of what inspired my journey into nursing, too. So that's really cool that we have that in common. So now you get into nursing school, and you're a nurse, and in your bio, I read that you went into ICU nursing right out of school, and I was like, whoa, brave! What was that like?
[04:23] Victoria: I was able to do the candy striping. So that was kind of volunteering. And that gave me exposure to a lot of different areas, but it also gave me connections, because then while I was in nursing school, I think they're called different positions in different areas. But I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. And at Cleveland State they were called CNAs. So they were kind of just nursing assistants. And I had worked on a skilled nursing unit, and I really loved it, but it was a slower pace. It was a lot of rehab. My clinical nurse supervisor at the time knew the nurse supervisor in the ICU, and she put in a really good word for me, and she basically just kind of pulled some strings, and I was able to get in there because typically they don't like new grads in there. But I was able to get in. I had awesome mentors. Awesome mentors. I think mentorship is everything in nursing because I definitely don't think I would have been able to swing it had I not had those incredible nurses that mentored me. But it was really perfect. I just loved it. There was a lower nurse-patient ratio in ICU, so even though there was that really high level of Acuity, the nurses were just so good, they kind of found the patients that would be better fit for a new grad, and they kind of eased me into there, and it was just great. I love that the only downside to school nursing is I do miss the acuity. I guess it's just the acuity I miss, that direct, hands-on care.
[05:53] Michelle: Well, so you stayed in ICU for four years. Okay. And then you started working in the school system part-time. Tell me about that.
[06:05] Victoria: My mom is a speech therapist, was a speech therapist. She's retired now, but she worked in Cleveland public schools, and my dad actually. So a lot of ICU nursing is, while it's wonderful most of the time, at least half of all those patients, it's either the worst day of their life or you're dealing with the families, and it's one of the worst days of their life because their loved ones are critically ill. So it was really taxing mentally. My dad had gotten very sick, and he ended up passing away. And after that, I think I kind of wanted just a break from those really critical cases because we did a lot of terminal weans, unfortunately, because it's the ICU, and sometimes I think it's just the nature of the unit. So those were really hard. So I was just kind of looking for a little something different just to kind of try out. And my mom had said, Why don't you start subbing as a school nurse? Because we only did the 3-12s in the ICU at the time, and I started subbing in school nursing, and I really liked it. I really liked it. It was really different. I loved working with kids. I had always thought maybe I would go into pediatrics, so it kind of gave me that exposure. The schedule was beautiful because you have your schedule at the start of the year, for the whole year in nursing. That's really not common. Yeah, no more nights, weekends, holidays, summers. It was a pretty beautiful schedule. But I also really did love the job itself. And then eventually, I just flip-flopped it and I started doing school nursing full time. And I tried to stay in the ICU for a minute, but then I ended up getting married and having kids, and I just swung completely the other way when I moved here to California. And I've been in school nursing only over here in California.
[07:45] Michelle: Well, that's quite a journey and two different ends of the spectrum.
[07:51] Victoria: Oh, yeah. I do feel like I went from one extreme to the other, but I really love nursing. Whenever anybody's talking about how they're not sure what they want to do or go into, I always try to sell nursing just in general because there's just so many avenues you can go into.
[08:04] Michelle: I totally agree with that. Well, what skills or experience of, like, being an ICU nurse did you bring with you to school nursing if any?
[08:17] Victoria: So in school nursing, there's emergencies for sure. We have anaphylactic emergencies, asthmatic attacks, I mean, all kinds of emergencies. And I do feel like in the ICU, we kind of live in that high acuity. Well, we lived I don't anymore to miss it, but I lived in that high-acuity area. Everything was pretty life-threatening all the time, so I felt like it gave me that ability to even though I still get very nervous in those situations, I'm able to maintain composure and kind of respond as best I can, and I think it was really good preparation for that. In the schools, there's no code blue button on the wall that you get to hit where you get a team of people running over to you. Yeah, I know. And there's very little tools. I mean, honestly, we don't have in my school district, we don't have oxygen. We don't have very much that you have to really be able to troubleshoot until EMS can get there. And where I work, we have really good response time, but there's times when EMS is dispatched out, and we've got to really be quick on our toes and just do the best you can. So I think ICU and all the emergencies and codes and things like that helped me at least be able to kind of keep my priorities straight and handle an emergency as best I can until EMS gets there. So I do think that that helped. And then just the basic clinical skills as far as assessment and all of that is super key because sometimes you pick up things and you're able to get those kiddos out into the ER to the hospital before anything goes bad at the school site. So definitely the assessment skills, too.
[09:54] Michelle: Yeah, and I would imagine, like being an ICU nurse, you have to be really organized and you have to organize your day in a certain way. And I would think that your organizational skills also help with your school nursing job, too.
[10:12] Victoria: Absolutely, yeah. That's definitely a good point. I've always been a very type A personality, but 100% for sure.
[10:20] Michelle: Well, you talk for a second about the schedule. So you went from working 3-12s to then working 5-8s, is that correct?
[10:30] Victoria: Yeah.
[10:30] Michelle: And how was that? Because being a nurse at 25, 26 years, I did the then when I moved to a new position in the NICU, it was the 5-8s and weekends off, holidays off. And it's so funny because so many of my colleagues would come to my desk and they would say, oh, man, I want your schedule. And I go, really? I work all week, and then I have two days where I have to try to do all my laundry, all my cleaning, all my grocery shopping, and then I got to start again and do it all over again. And then they would go, oh, yeah, maybe not. So, I mean, how was that transition for you for working the 3-12s to the 5-8s?
[11:26] Victoria: I think because I was young, and it was right when I had my kids, it wasn't okay. I'm pretty flexible, me, personally, and I did not miss the nights. So when I got to just switch over the days, I felt a little more alive. But I do hear you. It is really challenging and trying to get everything in on those two days, and then not just any two days, the same two days that the rest of the 9-5, monday through Friday, working world is trying to get everything done on two weekends. While there's a little bit of relaxing, it is a lot to get done, too. I like the predictability I think. And that's just unique to my situation because I'm living in California, but all my family is in Ohio. So if I know my schedule in May, the year prior, I'm able to plan trips and vacations. That was really difficult when I was in the hospital because your schedule just wasn't ironed out that way. And a lot of things were coverage issues and whether I was going to be able to find somebody to swap and switch. And so this, this is very nice in that sense.
[12:26] Michelle: Yeah. And I have to imagine, after working nights. I agree with you. It was brutal. And I only had to do it for two years, thank God, because I never felt well, I always felt off. I imagined the schedule. And now working days, are very much more predictable.
[12:50] Victoria: I think some people can swing that, working nights and sleeping during the day, and I think, truly, it doesn't affect their health. But I am not one of those people. It really weighs on me.
[13:00] Michelle: I hear you. My sister, I interviewed my sister, she's a flight nurse, and she did nights for like, 22 years.
[13:10] Victoria: Wow.
[13:11] Michelle: And then when she finally went to days, it was so hard. She still considers herself a night person because she still stays up late. It can stay with you for a long time. So some of the things that I was reading on the CDC website about school nursing, I thought it was interesting. I just wanted to run it by you and see if it's true in your case. And so what they said was a school nurse can help students and their families get access to health insurance, coordinate care by communicating between the family and health care providers, and educate families on what health care services are available to their child at school. So is there any truth in that?
[13:57] Victoria: Yes. I do feel for sure that often the school nurse is the link between healthcare and the parent, especially depending on the community you work in. So I came from Cleveland, which is there's a lot of poverty in that city, and then out here, which was a more rural area and very different, but a lot of similarities in the sense that they just don't know what they don't know. But the difference also here is the access. So in Cleveland, it was much easier for me to refer parents to providers that were nearby. There was a lot of resources available. Whereas out here, those specialists, the nearest many of them are where I work currently, is Valley Children's, and it's an hour away. For a lot of our parents, it's not accessible. There's a huge language barrier out here because so many of my parents are Spanish speaking only. And that, again, puts them at a big disadvantage just because they may not know. I definitely agree that as a school nurse, I'm able to help bridge that gap for a lot of parents, they just don't know what they don't know. And I'm able to help connect them with those services, those providers. I'm able to educate them on different things from things as trivial as the importance of sleep and how that could be affecting their kiddo and their performance, the importance of attendance, dental hygiene, the importance of physicals everything, you name it, it's all over the map. But educating parents and kids is one of my favorite pieces of my job. Unfortunately, because of staffing, it's kind of challenging because we're spread so thin. But that is one of my favorite parts of my job is when I am able to connect parents and then they're able to get their kiddos in with the providers and they're establishing those healthy habits and those go with the kids. And it does, it gives them a better outcome all in all because it's just making them healthier. And the healthier you are, the better you're going to learn and the better you're going to perform in life indefinitely in school. So for sure, connecting parents with resources and educating them on some of the basic stuff.
[15:57] Michelle: Well, you have a huge job in that, in education. That was one of my questions was are you directly involved with any sort of education like sex education and how do you provide that education? Is it one on one? How does that work?
[16:19] Victoria: So in the district that I work in, I'm one of the district nurses. There's two district nurses and we're the credentialed school nurses. And then we have a team of LVNs and they are hands-on at the sites, but we oversee them. So we make sure that they are trained and comfortable and competent in supporting the learners, like the diabetic learners, the daily medications, the first aid emergencies, and things like that. But as the district nurses will do, the health plans, the education, staff education, those kinds of things. And there are state mandates for general like sex ed. I think that's the minimum that is here. And unfortunately, I am really sad that there's really not more health education in the schools, but it most often is delegated out to certain teachers because there's a curriculum over here that they use. So they'll pull us into the classrooms occasionally to do different topics depending on what it is. I know with COVID they had us come in and talk with some groups. I've done hand washing talks and I have done the sex education talks in a different district and I've come in and just done different hygiene talks, things like that. But for structured sex education, they have a curriculum and often they go through the teachers or they'll have other staff at the school site that are credentialed that will teach that. So we don't do as much health education in the schools as I think I'd like to see, but I'd like to just see health education, class comeback period because they don't really do those classes anymore in the schools. I think we could do better with health education in schools.
[17:55] Michelle: Well, that's definitely an opportunity to explore. So in addition to educating students and their families, are you also involved in educating other nurses in the school system?
[18:11] Victoria: Yeah. So as the district nurse, one of the district nurses, there's two of us, we train the LVNs that work at the school sites and the health aides, and then we also train teachers. So there's a lot of delegation just because of the number of schools and then the number of us, there's not enough of us to get around. So we'll do the scheduling and make sure that there's always trained people at each site. But we do things like medication training so they can support with medications. I coordinate with the local children's hospitals, local providers. They come in and they'll do different education topics, diabetes updates, things like that. Because we have learners, the health needs of the learners in the schools, the acuity level varies. We've had kids with trachs, kids with G-tubes, tons of diabetics, bleeding disorders, tons of asthmatics, and a lot of severe allergies. So the health needs of the learners within the schools, it varies so much. So it's really important that our team understands that we understand and then we relay and make sure we educate any staff working with those kids that they understand their health concern and then also what they need to be aware of and watch out for. So we make tons of health plans and that basically just has the kind of picture and description of their health needs. And then if you see this, do this kind of thing. But education is really big as far as communicating the learners health concerns and then their health needs and how they can help.
[19:36] Michelle: Well, it sounds like you have a ton of really complex medical needs for these kids. And I was just thinking of when I was growing up, each school had their own school nurse and like, gone are those days, right?
[19:54] Victoria: Yeah.
[19:56] Michelle: And the things that kids would go to the school nurse for, where you fell down on the playground and you got scraped or you aren't feeling good, you have a fever, you're throwing up, those kinds of things. And now we have much sicker kids and less school nurses and less resources. So they're really spread then. Well, that was one of my questions was do you oversee other school nurses or LVNs? And my sister is an LVN in the school district and I'm happy to see that schools are utilizing licensed vocational nurses so widespread because they just bring such a wealth of knowledge and experience and flexibility to really extend the nursing services that are offered 100%.
[21:00] Victoria: And I do think that it's gaining momentum because I think when I started over here, it was about 12, 13 years ago, and the staffing in this area alone was much worse than it is now. So I do think that COVID was, you know, an awful thing in so many ways, but I do think it it really put a flat, you know, it put a spotlight on schools and medical needs even prior to COVID. But absolutely with COVID you need people with a higher level of training above just basic CPR and first aid. You need somebody with some knowledge in those health offices because, like you said, it's a constant rotating door of skin, knees and fevers and throwing up and headaches. But then you've also got those ones that walk through the door. And if you don't have that higher level of knowledge and understanding of those health issues, it can be really dangerous. And when we take kiddos into the school, they become our responsibility. So it's important that we're able to provide that higher level of care when it's needed. And it's often because kids are coming. Just, I think, the health status of the world, we're just getting more complex and sicker sooner. And it's unfortunate, but when we have people that understand those complex issues and how to respond, it's so much safer. So I do feel like even just in the ten years I've been here, it's much better. We utilize LVNs in every one of the school buildings and it's a much safer practice than how it was prior, which was they were having the attendance clerk in the main office try to troubleshoot and I wouldn't want to be the attendance clerk.
[22:30] Michelle: So true. Well, we kind of touched on COVID-19 but kind of give our listeners a look into what the school system and just you as a school nurse went through. And then how is it today, three years later? Like, what are the comparisons?
[22:48] Victoria: Oh, night and day. I mean, the district I worked in, we were really blessed because Lindsay unified specifically just technologically, they were really advanced. The kids all have devices and so they were able to pivot to that distance learning, which I think as a nation, that's what we did. Everybody kind of was working from home, so they were able to do that really nicely. And we worked on projects as the nurses, reaching out to the parents and educating and updating our procedures and all kinds of things like that. Messaging home to parents, connecting them with resources. And then as we came back into the schools, we followed what the health department was recommending at the time. And it was a lot at first, everybody was masked. We were doing the temperature checks and the symptom checks and the quarantine lists and making sure we were having everybody the testing and all of that stuff. And now we've lacked up quite a bit. But we just kind of follow those health department recommendations and we're doing the best we can, and I'm sure it's just going to get looser and looser that's what's coming down the pike, but we still follow the protocols. Somebody's sick. We still want to make sure that we're doing our best for infection control and keeping the majority safe.
[24:04] Michelle: Yeah. I imagine that it had to be just a really crazy time and chaos for a minute with you as a school nurse, and then you have young children, and I imagine that had to be a challenge because they were needing to do the remote learning and everything, and that's just got to be tough.
[24:32] Victoria: It was. I had a really good support network. Thank God we were able to really help take care of my kids because all the staff had to go back before the kids went back. So I was really blessed with a good support network.
[24:45] Michelle: Well, that's crucial, right? So professional organizations I talk a lot about professional organizations because I'm a big believer, and I looked at some organizations here and nationally and there's the California School Nurses Organization, the National Association of School Nurses, and the School Nurses of California Foundation. And I'll put those in the show notes for anybody that wants to look at those. But are you a member of any of these? Are you aware of any of these?
[25:17] Victoria: Yes, they're awesome resources, and I'm right there with you. I feel like whatever area of nursing you're in, connecting with those organizations are critical, for sure. Member of NASN and CSNO I actually just got back from the annual conference for CSNO, and it's always such a great learning opportunity. You network with a bunch of other nurses in California. We have different speakers on different topics. It's really important to stay connected with your area nurses, with the nurses and your specialty, because things change all the time. I think in every area of nursing, things are always changing all the time, and it is really important to network. I know when I first came over here in school nursing, had I not again been connected with some awesome school nurses as mentors, I don't think I would still be in school nursing because it's definitely one of those areas where you need that mentorship. You need somebody to kind of show you the ropes and point you in the right direction. And I think those professional organizations of all departments, all areas, are awesome places to start. And they offer really great resources because, again, in school nursing, we're kind of operating as a medical provider in an educational system. And there's so many times when the supervisor that you're directly working under doesn't have answers or doesn't really have structure or guidance on things. And California School Nurses Organization and NASM, they have resources that help structure the development of policies and procedures and professional organization statements and things like that. So they really help guide your judgment, your actions, your steps, and they offer a lot of things. I know as far as when I was advocating for more staff they have statements on ratios, and it's a really great place to get information from and guidance from. So for sure, I'm a huge proponent of organizations and definitely a member of those two.
[27:16] Michelle: Yeah, that's fantastic. You said it all there. I don't need to add anything, so thank you. Briefly, just kind of take us through a day in the life of a school nurse. What's your typical day look like?
[27:34] Victoria: Well, it depends on the time of the year. At the start of the year, a lot of it is just getting all those physicians' orders in, training staff on medication assistance and scheduling everybody in their offices, getting out those health alerts to all the teachers. Because on day one, they need to know who's allergic to peanuts and who's got an EpiPen and who's got asthma, who's got diabetes. So that first oh, man. I'd say probably the first week or two of school nursing. Every year is always a little bit chaotic, and then we transition in once we kind of get everything settled. We start with a lot of staff education. Like I said, we do the medication training, we do a lot of CPR training. We just kind of get as many people educated on all of the emergency response protocols. We have AEDs, we have stock EpiPens, and we have the bleeding kits. So we want to try to get everybody educated so that we've got a lot of trained people on deck to respond and support. Every week, I know I have to where I check in with every one of the LVNs or health aides, I supervise to make sure that everything is going off well. Check the medication books, check the medication carts, check in with the learners, check in with the parents, always following up. Every day I'm following up with some medical provider about orders or health plans. Every day I'm creating a health plan and sending us home for parent review. Screening kids for hearing and vision, that's a huge one. There's not only the mandates, but then there's also the special education learners and teacher requests. So we're always screening kids hearing and vision and following up on that returning parent calls. We do a little bit of employee health with TB clearance and things like that, but immunization reports on the students, their state reports affixed to that, along with the hearing and vision and physicals. So we just everyday chip away at kind of the long term tasks we've got throughout the year. It just depends on what time of year. But in general, I come in, I check in with my staff, check in with my kiddos, and check in with the parents, and tick away at whatever the tasks are for that day, whether it be health plans or medication orders or medication books. I never catch up.
[29:49] Michelle: You're having some really full days.
[29:51] Victoria: Oh, the days are absolutely full. So I know when you had said when you switched over. To kind of a more of like 730 to 435 o'clock. I'm grateful for the after school program because often my days run late, and before I was staffed really well, they definitely ran into home hours just because there's so much. And like I said, communicating those health issues out, it's very important. So the days are long, but once you get everything kind of situated and organized, organization is everything. In school nursing you had mentioned before, I'd be very wrong to not say if you're not a very organized person, school nursing, it would probably be pretty chaotic. So you just got to really stay organized and keep those lists and just chip away at those tasks. A lot of delegation. So you just got to really be on top of staying on top of everybody. But it's really good. I really do love school nursing.
[30:49] Michelle: Well, I can definitely hear that in your enthusiasm, and I have to agree. You have to know your resources, and you have to be organized. One of the things I was curious about is, what do the teachers come to you? What do they ask for your help with?
[31:09] Victoria: All over the map. A lot of the times it's hearing or vision concerns. Often it's other stuff, like headlights, this rash, the regular run of the mill kind of communicable hole. This kid's eye is pink and draining. This kid's got a real runny nose, so all that kind of stuff. But it can be really significant too. Even though teachers are mandated reporters, I think everybody gets nervous when it comes to that kind of stuff. So often they'll come in to the health offices and say, hey, I'm a little concerned about this. We always address all that stuff and help in any way we can. Okay, what are the concerns? What can we help with? We just make sure to get them connected with whatever we need to get them connected with, whether it's a medical provider for something that looks like maybe an allergic rash or headlights. And I'm just connecting them with getting their hands on some of the shampoo and whatever that looks like, whether it's through their insurance, because it's free that way, or through our resource center because sometimes they have it out, sometimes it's behavioral, and it's talking with the parent about what's going on at home. So it runs the gamut. But luckily in our district, and I think that's really important too, when you're in the professional in the schools, you got to have really good rapport with your teachers. You have to be approachable so they feel comfortable asking you questions and bringing things to you because they're so helpful. I mean, they point out things to us so often that we aren't aware of, and it's important that we are aware of. So just that really good communication with those teachers is really important too. But they bring all kinds of stuff, and I feel like as long as we listen to them and help them out, they reciprocate it right back. And it's a really good team. I'm very happy in the district I'm at. There's really good leadership. There's really good teamwork. It's a really good thing.
[32:54] Michelle: Those are all so important to the success of what you're doing. And I could just imagine as a teacher just feeling comfortable and just backed up, knowing that someone else has your back that you rely on, they can call on you as a resource and things that they might feel uncomfortable about.
[33:20] Victoria: Absolutely. There's a lot of teachers, especially they'll get the health plan on that diabetic learner or that learner with epilepsy, and they freak out. They get very nervous. So I just sit there with them, and if it means I go through it with them for ten minutes and they're comfortable, or if I go through it with them for 40 minutes and then they're comfortable, I just need to make sure that they're comfortable and they know what their role is. And then, like you said, they know that there's a plan. So it's not like you're going to be alone. This is what's going to happen, and we're going to have your back and we're going to come, and this is what we need you to do. I agree with you. We want them to feel backed up, too.
[33:55] Michelle: Yeah, that's so important. Well, talk about the education that's required to be a school nurse.
[34:04] Victoria: So you have to have your bachelor's in nursing, and then you have to get a credential in school nursing. I think there's a couple of different pathways over here. I did all of mine in Ohio, all my education. So you have to have your bachelor's, and then you have to get a credential. The credential is some graduate school, and most of the nurses out here end up getting a public health nursing certificate. Also. I had gotten my Masters in health education over in Ohio, and that worked also. But you do have to do a credentialing program, and I can't remember how many hours it was because I did all mine in Ohio, and I think it was a little bit different than over here. But to be a credentialed school nurse, you do have to do the graduate program for the graduate credential that is grad school. So they do the things, like it really focuses on community health and your audiometry certification and just a lot of public health issues and things that are specific to the schools.
[35:07] Michelle: Well, could you start working as a school nurse without your credential? And is that something that you can do in the process?
[35:14] Victoria: Like yes, you can. Yeah, I think they give you five years to get your credential, and a lot of nurses do that. They'll step into the schools just to kind of see if it's something that they're interested in or if it would be an area that they would want to go into, that would be a good thing. Honestly, I think it's just like one of those hidden fields. But if you get into an area, school district school and you really advocate and kind of show your worth and can set up a system and. Can't imagine how nurses can't be real happy in school nursing. It's just a wonderful area. I really love what I do. I feel like what we do as school nurses do make a difference for sure. We're keeping learners healthy, we're educating families, we're creating safety plans nonstop to kind of help everybody. So I really do enjoy what I do.
[36:11] Michelle: Well, your work is crucial, and again, I can hear your enthusiasm and I'm so glad that we're talking about this. How is the pay compared to hospital nursing?
[36:26] Victoria: That is all over the map. So I do know a lot of the chat rooms that I'm in part of NASM, there's nurses all across the United States, and unfortunately, there are some states and areas that just really underpay nurses. And I think that might be now that you bring it up, that might be one of the big reasons that nurses don't go into the schools, because hospitals pay so much more. I'm really blessed. Again, I'm in a district that really pays us very well. So what I make is very comparable to in fact, it's completely comparable to what the nurses make in the hospital. And then, like I said, given my hours, I feel really blessed with the schedule that I have. So I am paid similar to what nurses make here in the hospitals, but I know in other areas my sister is a school nurse in South Carolina, and she took a huge pay cut to go into the schools. It worked really well for her and having the family she's actually a school nurse at her kids school, so she really loves it. But she did take a huge pay cut. So I know it's not the case for everybody, but it's really all over the map. I mean, it's almost a crime how low they pay some school nurses in some states.
[37:34] Michelle: Wow. Yeah, it seems like it would be more standardized. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. What about the turnover? Because I don't see school nurse positions popping up all the time. I think it's probably like the NICU where we really love what we do and we stay there for a while. Would you say that's true?
[38:01] Victoria: I think in the area I'm at, it's not easy to find credentialed school nurses. So I do see nurses come in, but they don't get their credentials, so then they exit and there's just not that many nurses that I don't know whether they're not aware of school nursing. But out here, I don't feel like there's an abundance of school nurses to even work in the schools because I know even when I had advocated for another district nurse to kind of join our district, and it's challenging to find a credentialed school nurse to fill those spots. And then I think it just really depends on the area, because, like I said, there's some areas where they're paid very well, and then there's other areas where they're not paid very well. And you work to live, at least I think most people don't live to work, so it's important to get paid.
[38:52] Michelle: Yes, absolutely. And I think for some, like you said, your sister, it's a trade-off. It's like you want to get out of in-hospital nursing, and you want to have the same schedule as your kids, and so you might be willing to take a pay cut in order to do that. Yes, but what do you do during the summer?
[39:22] Victoria: I always meet up with my family and have a lot of family time. I always meet up with my family in Ohio, and we do road trips and travel and family time, family time, family time. We do have to always make sure that we address the summer programs. So, again, my school year goes a little bit longer than some other staff, but that's just to get those programs situated and make sure that there's staff on site, because a lot of schools, not just our school district, have summer programs. So I've always got my phone, and they give a call, and we kind of address it that way. But we do staff some nurses over the summer for the summer programs as well.
[40:01] Michelle: Okay. Yeah, because the summer school most schools have that, and that's good to know that they're covered. Well, you have given us a ton of information, and you have schooled me on everything, being a school nurse, even though, like I said, my sister is an LVN with the school district, I know a lot of what goes on, but you really expanded that. So thank you. What can I do today if I want to become a school nurse? What steps do I need to take?
[40:35] Victoria: Well, if you've already had your bachelor's, you could actually just go apply and start something, I think. Just go apply to the school district districts, and if you like it, then you enroll in a credential program. There's not many school nurse credential programs in the area, which is another thing. When I was in Ohio, it was a lot easier to find all those programs, whereas over here in more of a rural area, you got to drive to do that kind of stuff. So I think that might make it a little more challenging, too, for the field of school nursing, just because it's not the easiest to get that credential. But my advice would just hop into schools and see if you like it. Just like with every area of school nursing or I'm sorry, every area of nursing. Just because my gym doesn't mean it's everybody some people might do it and just not get that itch. You talked about how did you say your sister was a flight nurse or is a flight nurse?
[41:29] Michelle: Yeah.
[41:30] Victoria: That's awesome. That makes me feel jealous. I do miss that acuity.
[41:38] Michelle: Yeah, she did ICU for ten years before she went into flight nursing, and now she's a director of a flight nurse program. So she's kind of getting in the helicopter. Yeah, definitely. Well, man, you've really provided so much information, Victoria. I know that our listeners are just really well-informed, and I really appreciate you being here, and I'm so glad that we finally got to do this, even though we kind of went around some corners to do it. But thank you so much for being here. You know, at the end, I do the five-minute snippet, and that's a way for our listeners to kind of get to know you, your off-duty side when you're not being a school nurse. So it's just some questions that are fun and you know all the answers too. So are you ready to play it?
[42:39] Victoria: Okay.
[42:42] Michelle: I hear that a lot.
[42:43] Victoria: People are like, yeah, nervous, I hope.
[42:48] Michelle: It's really a lot of fun. We laugh a lot. So I bring up my timer, and then we'll just start. One of your hobbies is jogging, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have so much respect. But what's the best trail for running that you like?
[43:11] Victoria: I'm pretty boring just because of where I live. As far as trails go, I'm pretty much a city runner. I squeeze in runs whenever I can. My girls will be at tumbling class, and I will drop them off, throw on my running shoes, and run out, see if I can squeeze in 4 miles. I run wherever I can whenever I can. But I love running by the beach. I guess one of my favorite spots would be when we go to the Cambria Fiscalini trail, and that's why I really love running along the coast. So anywhere outside, I love running outdoors. And up in the mountains or down by the beach, I will run anywhere. I really love it.
[43:49] Michelle: All right, your best time for a 5K?
[43:51] Victoria: Oh, jeez. You know what? Honestly, I'm more of a hobby runner. I've only done a handful of race times, so I don't even know. But I know that I feel really good about myself if I get my miles under ten minutes. Okay. Yeah.
[44:11] Michelle: Things I think about while jogging.
[44:14] Victoria: I am a big geek, and I love books like Audible, so most of the time am listening to books, and otherwise probably just think about my kids or work. So I like to just put on my books and listen to my stories while I run.
[44:33] Michelle: Okay. Along those lines. Favorite book or genre?
[44:38] Victoria: I love fiction. Favorite book? That's hard. I guess I've got a favorite book in different areas, like as a kid, one of my favorite books was Freak the Mighty. I actually think one of your other nurses posted it on your website, and I thought, that's crazy because it's about a little kiddo. He's got some health issues. He's real small in size, and then he meets a very large kid who is maybe not the smartest. So there was, like, kind of the brains and the brawn, and as a young kid, I read it really young, and I don't know, it was just one of those books that really spoke to me about how people complement each other and relationships are everything. So that was a book I've always liked as a kid and then as an adult. Like I said, I'm always reading, and I love fiction. I love love stories. Probably fiction. Romance maybe. Might be, but not the cheesy romance ones.
[45:30] Michelle: I'm going to have to check out that book. That sounds really fascinating. If you could be the personal assistant to anyone, who would it be?
[45:41] Victoria: Personal assistant to anyone?
[45:42] Michelle: Or maybe you want a personal assistant.
[45:51] Victoria: Man, I don't know. There's so many people that I'd love to get closer to, to just kind of see what their days are like. I'm not sure that's a tough one. I don't know.
[46:01] Michelle: That's okay. Which celebrity is a positive role model for kids today? Or are there any?
[46:10] Victoria: I think there are some. I feel like it's pretty different from when I was younger. I have two girls, and I know I'm constantly trying to just censor what they're exposed to because even music on the radio is just so different. But there's definitely positive role models. I know. I like one of the musicians I like is Pink. I feel like she's a pretty strong female role model. Taylor Swift. I know it's kind of cheesy. They both have songs that are probably not child appropriate, but I think they're strong female role models, and I know that's what I'm always looking for because I have two daughters.
[46:44] Michelle: Sure. What song always puts you in a good mood?
[46:52] Victoria: Probably Wonderwall by Oasis.
[46:55] Michelle: Wow, good one. Yeah. Most memorable class in college. 35 seconds.
[47:02] Victoria: Oh, gosh. Do you know what I loved? I loved my pediatrics rotation. I really did. I really liked being on the pediatrics unit, so probably my pediatrics rotation in college.
[47:13] Michelle: Well, this Peds nurse loves hearing that. Definitely. I love it. Okay, last 15 seconds. My garden is blank.
[47:25] Victoria: My garden is currently not happening, but I love it. It's my safe space. It's my peaceful retreat. I love when I get it going, but this last year, I let it fall.
[47:40] Michelle: Oh, I love it. Okay, well, we've had a lot of rain and storms this season, so hopefully, in the next few weeks, we can all get out in our gardens and make stuff grow, right?
[47:55] Victoria: Yes.
[47:56] Michelle: Well, that was fun. Victoria, thank you for indulging me.
[48:00] Victoria: Thank you.
[48:01] Michelle: Yeah, you've been a lot of fun and so much energy, so much enthusiasm, so much love for what you do that came through loud and clear. So, again, thank you so much for being here.
[48:14] Victoria: Thank you for what you do. Because I think it's awesome that you're just spreading the word on different types of nursing and sharing everyone's experiences. Because I think just getting things out like this, it gives people something to relate to and hear from the different types of nurses and their different stories and experiences. And I think it's just, in general, for nursing, it's awesome. So thank you for what you're doing. I think it's really awesome.
[48:36] Michelle: Well, thank you. That's my aim, and that's my goal, so I appreciate those words.
[48:41] Victoria: Thank you.
[48:42] Michelle: You enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
[48:44] Victoria: You've too. You too. Thank you so much. Okay.
[48:47] Michelle: Take care.
[48:47] Victoria: Thanks. Bye.