The Brains Behind The Nursing Beat

[00:00] Michelle: Today's episode is all about THE premier digital newsletter made by nurses for nurses, and it's called The Nursing Beat. At its helm are CEO, Tamara Al-Yassin and COO, Hannah Burns. This power duo mustered up their courage, left the emergency room for the boardroom, and haven't looked back. It takes a village to create a newsletter this good. So Tamara and Hannah have surrounded themselves with brilliant content contributors, advisors, and out-of-the-box thinkers. Nurses are busy, and we need a compact dose of the issues that affect us the most. With over 21,000 subscribers, if you're not already getting this gem delivered daily to your inbox, my question is, why the hell not? In the five-minute snippet, we switched it up to a version of The Newlywed Game, and between plant mamas and toilet paper, I'd say they know each other pretty well. Here are Tamara and Hannah from The Nursing Beat.  Well, good morning, ladies. Welcome to the show.
[01:26] Tamara: Good morning, Michelle. Thanks for having us.
[01:29] Hannah: Good morning. Hi, all.
[01:32] Michelle: Yeah, it's my pleasure. I met you guys, or I became aware of you through actually, one of your advisors, Taofiki Gafar-Schaner.
[01:44] Tamara: Oh, yes.
[01:47] Michelle: He's amazing. And he was my guest for episode 17. Well, he still is an informatics nurse, so he posted something on his Instagram stories, some of your content, and a link to your newsletter. And that's how I found you guys. So thankful for that.
[02:10] Tamara: Yeah, I love that. That power of social. Love it, love it.
[02:15] Michelle: Absolutely. Well, we are just going to get started because there's so much I want to know about you both and The Nursing Beat. And congratulations on 21,000 subscribers.
[02:28] Hannah: Thank you.
[02:30] Tamara: Been a very crazy, fun ride this past year.
[02:35] Michelle: Yes. Lots of growth and just amazing.
[02:40] Hannah: Thank you.
[02:40] Michelle: We'll just get started so Tamara, you're the CEO, and Hannah, you're the COO.
[02:51] Hannah: I am.
[02:52] Michelle: Yeah. Those are some different titles than the nursing titles that we carry, right?
[02:58] Tamara: That's right. Totally.
[03:00] Michelle: So talk about your jobs or your roles as the CEO and the COO. And how did you prepare for those roles after being nurses?
[03:11] Tamara: Yeah, that's a great question. I can kick this off. First, I'll start by saying that our nursing jobs set us up, actually for entrepreneurship and leadership more than we know. The role of communication and delegation is so key in nursing, and it honestly translates really well to executive-level roles. We're so resilient as nurses and can manage stress like, really almost no other profession that I think that has been an easy transition. I think learning the mechanics of things like accounting or finance maybe have been harder, and I supplemented that by going to school. So I did get my MBA prior to taking this position and graduated last year. And I will say, between the curriculum and the network, that has also been really key for me. I know Hannah shares that same sentiment.
[04:16] Hannah: Absolutely, I do.
[04:18] Michelle: I see a lot of similarities. I think nurses are natural leaders, and I totally see that in both of you. And I think many nurses don't think they have what it takes to jump into entrepreneurship when they really do. And you guys have done it seemingly effortlessly.
[04:44] Tamara: Well, we've had our fair share, we've had our days, and we didn't, I would tell someone interested, you don't necessarily need to jump in. This was a second business for us. So Hannah and I actually started a lapel pin business together during the pandemic, and we were working full-time as emergency room nurses, and that was sort of the catalyst that set off this entire domino effect. But it really is, like, about finding your passion and trying it. And the beauty of nursing is if you do work in the hospital and you work twelve-hour shifts, you do have days to commit to finding that passion.
[05:29] Hannah: I think a lot of it, too, is finding out we end up staying within our nursing bubble. And, during the pandemic, got my Master's in healthcare innovation, and I always knew I wanted to do a nonnursing degree to just kind of expand my scope and expand my network beyond the hospital setting. And so my program had physicians and lawyers and people in tech and people with not even a nursing or medical background. And so chatting with them and hearing different perspectives and different problems really kind of opened my eyes to the entrepreneurial world. And how do I merge my nursing background with everything else that I'm interested in? And I think a lot of nurses end up not knowing where to start on their entrepreneurial journey. And I would say start by talking to people, and expanding your network is a big part of that.
[06:26] Michelle: Yeah, we get really tied up in our identity as nurses. And Tamara, you wrote a really great piece that I looked at, and it was called Looking to Leave the Bedside? And in it, you talked about nursing as an identity and a lot of nurses feeling guilty or really having a difficult transition from leaving nursing to something else, even if it's related to nursing. And I will say that I definitely felt that when I retired from nursing. I had a good few months there where it was like touch and go. I was looking for jobs. I don't know how to just be a retired person. My whole tribe was in the NICU. I worked at my hospital for 40 years.
[07:26] Tamara: Wow.
[07:27] Michelle: Yeah, it was just like, I missed rounds, I missed wearing scrubs. It was ridiculous.
[07:33] Tamara: Yeah, I miss scrubs, too.
[07:35] Hannah: I do.
[07:36] Michelle: Yeah. There's comfort in those, right?
[07:40] Hannah: Absolutely. Yeah.
[07:41] Michelle: But talk about the nurse's identity and kind of some strategies of how we can change that up when we go into a different field.
[07:52] Tamara: Yeah, it's such a great question. Well, first, hats off to you. For 40 years. I think you can teach us a thing or two about longevity. First that and then identity. Oh, man, I was on a walk yesterday and I was thinking about this ironically, and I was thinking about identity in general, and I was thinking about when you place any title as sort of who you are, it doesn't even have to be a nurse, right? It could be a daughter, mom, or friend. Like, whatever title it is, if you place too much emphasis on it, you're automatically putting this unnecessary pressure on that title and identity. And really, we should all be well-rounded humans who do lots of different things and love lots of different things. And I think there's one part to this, like as a nurse, you have to accept that your job is not normal and that there is an identity attached to it, that you go through things with human beings and patients and other nurses that other people will never go through in their life. And it's okay to place identity in that. But you are also a human being with your own personal life and your own problems and struggles, and you put that away for 12 hours a day, how many days a week to be there for somebody else? And it's okay to say, I need a break or I need to go part-time, or I need to go remote. I think the longevity piece happens when you know when it's your time. And my last job, obviously, the pandemic was really brutal for nurses and the healthcare community. And I knew, I thought, I just don't want to be angry or upset or resentful. I want to be part of the solution. And if I don't start to plan my next steps, I will be the person I never wanted to be. But it doesn't go to say that I cried for weeks after I left the ER because I missed my friends and my patients, and I still, a year and a half later, think about it. I still miss it. It maybe will never go away, but I'm still a nurse, even though I'm not bedside. And I think that's sort of the new normal now, too, is to accept that.
[10:31] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. Hannah, did you have some of the same feelings?
[10:36] Hannah: Yeah, I think I was definitely at the time I left the bedside ready to take the next step in my career because I knew I didn't want to reach that point of burnout where there was no return for me. And I think it's been difficult. There's so much of the nursing identity that is placed in the hospital setting, and since we are not in the hospital setting, we've really had to kind of overcome both internal and external forces of ensuring that although we are not at the bedside. We're still doing justice for our nursing community, even though we are not in direct patient care anymore. And I think that's really important to remember, even if you're not at the bedside, you were still once a nurse, always a nurse, forever and ever, amen. So I think remembering that and that's really given me a lot of solace and I love supporting it was an absolute honor to take care of patients for eleven-plus years in the ER. And now I get to take care of my nursing community, and that's what drives me every day, and I can't be more thankful for that.
[11:52] Michelle: There are so many ways to be a nurse, and you nailed it right there. And I think there's so many similarities in really what we're both doing in terms know, supporting nurses, highlighting nurses, celebrating nurses. And I hear you, Hannah, I went through the same, you know, it's like, sad that we have to tell ourselves these things. Like, no, Michelle, you're still a nurse, you're still licensed, you're still a nurse. It's okay, you're just not working in the hospital.
[12:30] Hannah: It's hard. Especially after the pandemic, too. Tamara and I left the bedside in, what was it? April and June of 2022, like, post-pandemic. And for me, it was difficult after going through being on the front lines for the past two years with my emergency room family and then leaving that it was a difficult decision. But I also knew at the same time, it was the right one to make for myself. And I'm very pleased I did. Honestly, it's given me a whole new light on the nursing profession.
[13:11] Michelle: Well, let's talk about why you started The Nursing Beat. So was there something that you saw in the nursing community? Were there nurses saying, we need more resources, we need more attention on certain issues in nursing? So talk about that.
[13:37] Tamara: Yeah, I think honestly, it started just with us as nurses. Knowing and needing things that we didn't have or didn't have enough of. Health care is so complicated. I like to say that when you go to try and learn something in the hospital, what are you referred to? You're referred to a protocol. And how long is that protocol? It's like 20 pages. Right? And by the time you end up finishing it, you've got like 20 other things to do. And that's kind of like the way I translate it to content. There's so much content, there are so many research articles that are hundreds of pages. There's bills, and healthcare legislation with hundreds of pages. How is a nurse who also has a personal life, how are they going to try and stay up to date with everything? It's almost impossible. So really, The Nursing Beat arose from the need to aggregate all these communities, all this data, onto one easy-to-read newsletter. And I follow Morning Brew. And I followed Skim. Like, if any of you guys out there are, like, digital newsletter people now. Hannah and I are like, even prior to the nursing know, we both followed the Skim and Robin Hood Snacks because it was just easy. It was you know, less than five minutes. I got what needed and, like, what better thing to do than for the healthcare community where the information is so complicated and long?
[15:23] Michelle: Yeah. I love the format. I love how succinct it is. And it really did remind me of the Morning Brew. I started getting that newsletter probably a couple of years ago now, and I did the thing that you're not supposed to do, where you get on your phone first thing in the morning.
[15:44] Tamara: We all do it.
[15:45] Michelle: I know, and I'm trying to break that really bad habit, but that's what I'd be. I would be in bed, like, scrolling through the Morning Brew for the first five, seven minutes, and I'd be like, okay, now I know what's going on in the morning. But I think your newsletter is very similar, and I really love the format of it.
[16:05] Tamara: Thank you.
[16:06] Michelle: Yeah, especially the new format. So much easier to read. Yeah. It's kind of like one of those things that you didn't know what was missing until you saw the new version.
[16:20] Tamara: Yeah, no doubt.
[16:23] Michelle: I love it.
[16:24] Tamara: We put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into that new one, and we're definitely really proud of it. For sure.
[16:30] Michelle: You should be. And I can only imagine what goes into that. And it takes a village, right? And you absolutely have quite a team. Talk about some of your team members and what they contribute.
[16:48] Hannah: We have a fabulous team. I'm so thrilled with our team. Tamara and I just with our experience together, we've always just worked really well together, and we balance each other really well. And then our team is a lot of nurses, and nurses just kind of, speaking to what Tamara said earlier. Nurses know we're queued for entrepreneurship and business. Every nurse knows how to think outside the box and solve the problem. And if you don't know the answer, you go find somebody who could potentially know the answer. And so I think that's what makes our team jive really well. Our editor is a nurse, and her background is in legal studies, and she has been such a phenomenon to work with. She is a powerhouse of an editor, and she's also from the Midwest too. And so that's another thing. We've tried to incorporate all of these nurses and then nurses from around the country to get different perspectives and ideas. Because Tamara and I, being based in the Bay Area for the past many, know we have one view of nursing and what that looks like, and the rest of our team brings in different perspectives and ideas. And our team meetings are pretty fun every Wednesday.
[18:08] Tamara: Yeah, we have, like, a lot, you know, nursing is there are, so many specialties. There's so many generations of nurses, there's, like Hannah said, location differences based on location. And we have so many contributors from all over the US with different specialties, different businesses. And Hannah and I don't pretend to be specialties and everything, but there are out there that are and they believe in what we're doing and they make really great contributors and we're really thankful for all of them. Our team, like, we started with nobody and now we have over 15. Yeah, it's been a year for sure, but it's kind of like translating your community and your department, right? Whether it's like NICU, ER, whoever, like, all your best friends, the people you almost grow up professionally with, and it's like, we're doing that. We have our own unique department now, and it's the TNB department.
[19:16] Hannah: And the common thread between our whole team is that everyone believes in what we're doing and believes and really inherently wants to give back to the nursing profession. And that's what drives all of us, whether we're at the bedside or not anymore. We all just want to support one another within our nursing community. And that's been so special.
[19:41] Michelle: Yeah, it's so special to work with like-minded people and it harkens back to your tribe working in the ER or the NICU. And you're all there for one purpose. You're all there for one reason. You all do what you do because you love it, and you're all sharing that at the same time. And then you guys have taken that and created a tribe of your own through The Nursing Beat.
[20:08] Hannah: Yeah.
[20:09] Michelle: One of the things I noticed about Kelly right off is she always signs off with Memento Vivere. And I immediately locked onto that because, as my listeners know, I talk a lot about the ancient Stoics and one of the lessons that I learned through Marcus Aurelius is Memento Mori, remember, you must die. And then when I saw Kelly with her Memento Vivere, I was like, remember to live. And I go, wow. Yeah, like, I've been focusing on the wrong thing. I think focusing on, remember, one day you're going to die, well, yeah, like, logically, we know that, right? And the underlying message is, like, live your life because you're going to die. But when I saw Kelly with the Memento Vivere, I was just like, that's where the focus needs to be, remember to live.
[21:14] Tamara: Yep.
[21:21] Michelle: I really get this.
[21:23] Hannah: Oh, wonderful. It's true. You have to remember to live, especially in what we see in the hospital setting. As Tamara mentioned, it's not normal. This is not a normal nine-to-five job. And we do face death quite a bit. And so living in the moment, exploring your entrepreneurial journey and entrepreneurial spirit is so important. If that's what you want to do, make it.
[21:47] Michelle: Absolutely. And so I'm looking at some of your content contributors here and Nurse Manny. He does tech Tuesday. Nurse Fern, she's been out there for a while helping bedside nurses find remote nursing jobs. You have Diana Page. She does the break room. Tara, Ryan Kosmos, has Debriefing the Front Lines. Sarah Wells, she's the New Thing Nurse. And let's see, the dancing nurse is Tara Rynders.
[22:27] Hannah: Yep.
[22:28] Michelle: Okay. And I read an article she did a blog article, Let Us Normalize Nurses Receiving Care, and that just was so thoughtfully written and really intuitive about the nurse's personality, and she talked about her being a patient and how hard it was for her to receive that care. I thought that was a great article. And then another article that I really loved was one by Samantha Beaver, she did the Wise Word of the Month of June: Honor, where she discussed the ethics of care. And I thought, yes, this is what we need. This is what nurses need to see. Because being a nurse for 36 years, I tried to think of the number of times that we discussed ethics in nursing, and I couldn't remember any, and I couldn't come up with any, and that was just so sad. And especially working, like, in pediatrics and NICU, maternal child health, there are so many ethical challenges, right? But we never talked about it. So I'm really glad to see that you guys are focusing on that. And then a lot of timely articles, like, yesterday's article on the heat was really good. I loved the body bag case study and the toolkit of what to do when it gets super hot. I downloaded that, so I really love the content that you guys are producing. I think it's so timely and so important.
[24:16] Hannah: Well, thank you.
[24:17] Tamara: Another thing sort of that Hannah and I considered is that nursing there's, like, a lot of subcultures to nursing, and there's nursing influencers and content creators. There's nursing organizations and universities, and we really try and pull, like, a diverse set. I think everybody has a voice. Like, Samantha Beaver is part of the Nurses on Boards coalition. So if you're a nurse leader and you want to reach executive level or board roles, they're a great organization to go to. Tara Rynders is probably one of the most therapeutic people I've ever met in my life. Like, you come away from things with her more calm than you've been probably the entire day. She's the founder of the clinic performance, but she has a dancing background, and she's a nurse, and she does really amazing, thoughtful projects for organizations. We just have such a diverse group that you really can learn a bit from everyone, and then you kind of realize you actually need everyone to help solve the systemic issues that we have going on. And it's not just about a nursing.org or a school or a hospital or an entrepreneur. We all have to come together.
[25:42] Michelle: Yeah, I see a lot of representation there, and I just really love it. And I've met so many great nurses through LinkedIn, and you both have a strong LinkedIn presence. So tell me about the LinkedIn community.
[25:57] Tamara: Oh, Hannah, you take this one. Hannah is the expert.
[26:03] Hannah: Of all the social media platforms, I am not a social media person. That's why Tamara is saying this. LinkedIn is my platform. Honestly, I really got into LinkedIn when I started my master's program before orientation week. I got all these LinkedIn friend requests and I was like, oh, my gosh, I guess this is a thing now in grad school. And so I really started to fluff up my LinkedIn. And then I just started perusing and seeing what other nurses are doing and connecting with other people, looking at different job titles, a lot of thought leadership. I think to speak to all of our contributors. The one thing that's so easy about all of them is they're so passionate about their subject matter. And then you translate that onto LinkedIn, and nobody's trying to be like a jack of all trades. Every individual has their platform on LinkedIn, and that's kind of what they post about. And you get to know these names and these faces, and everyone is just so open to connect and to hear more about what you're doing or help connect you with somebody. And if you're a nurse and you're looking to take that next step, get on LinkedIn. I promise it won't do you wrong. Nurse Fern actually has a LinkedIn Light-up course that she has put together, and I would highly recommend that. But LinkedIn, it's just cool to see what other people are doing professionally.
[27:39] Tamara: Yeah, it's such a powerful tool that I think the nursing community is finally sort of starting to become involved in. Historically, it was more like nursing leaders, decision-makers, and executive healthcare executives, but now you see a lot of bedside nurses that are looking for professional advancement. And I feel like I'm the same as Hannah. For me, it started more passively. I was like, what's going on? I need to advance professionally. What are other nurses doing? And then I realized it's an entire community, an ecosystem. I use it to find people to potentially hire. I use it to find writers, literally. It's endless. It's the number one social platform for me now, for sure.
[28:30] Michelle: Yeah. I think it's a big secret to so many, and I'm not sure why, because for all the reasons that you both just said, it's amazing. I think it's a little bit difficult to navigate. If you've been with other types of social media, like Instagram and Facebook, it's different. And maybe that's the challenge, I don't know. But I've just found it to be wonderful. And for all those same reasons that you guys talked about.
[29:07] Hannah: I think it's intimidating for a lot of people, especially nurses in the hospital. Every time I went to go look for a new job, you go to the hospital that you want to work at, and you go to their careers page and that's how you find your next job. So once I kind of realized what LinkedIn was and the resources, you just go on to LinkedIn Jobs and you put in one keyword and you'll just get all of these different companies and it aggregates all of these different careers websites, and it gives you so many options. I think nurses aren't necessarily told to use the tool because we're just kind of told to go to the hospital careers page. But there's so many nursing jobs on LinkedIn, it's phenomenal, and that's a great way to start using it.
[29:57] Michelle: Yeah, I think that for bedside nurses, it's not on their radar. I think definitely when you start advancing your career or your education, it becomes more of a thing. And I went on there because I started the podcast. Lots of different advice was coming from podcasters to go on LinkedIn, and it took me a little while, but I really love it. I think it's great, and I think it's adding a lot to the nursing community.
[30:38] Hannah: Definitely.
[30:39] Michelle: So let's talk about professionalism in nursing for a moment. You both hold several board certifications in your specialty and just talk about the importance of that.
[30:52] Tamara: So backstory. Hannah and I started as new grads together. We met signing paperwork in HR.
[30:59] Michelle: Wow.
[31:00] Tamara: So that's how we know each other and then have worked together and obviously become best friends over the years. And as new grads, our nurse educator was very bullish on making sure we continued our education and got certified, our certified Emergency Nurse Certification. They even put us in classes for it. It was instrumental in sort of kicking off the importance of these specialty certifications, especially as a newer nurse, like one to five years out. It's really a great way to learn as you grow, and it really speaks to that New Grad program and that nurse educator could shape the way you look at certifications. I mean, I'm speaking for myself, and I think Hannah feels the same way. It set the tone for years to come in terms of the importance of the certifications.
[32:01] Hannah: I do agree, yes. And through mean, I use certifications as I knew I wanted to go to grad school eventually, but I didn't know exactly what for. So I use that as kind of a mental exercise of I've been at the bedside, I'm good at what I do, but I want to expand and study, and so let me get this certification. And then I switched specialties to Pediatric emergency. And then I said, if I'm going to work with these tiny humans, I should definitely fluff up my test skills and get certified, which helped a lot with switching specialties. And then I also ended up moving because I still didn't find my grad program until a few years ago. Then I went into item writing. So I wrote for the Board of Certification for Emergency Nursing. And I wrote test questions for them again as, like, kind of let me see where this goes and where this takes me and if I enjoy it. And so it was just kind of a fun, outside-of-work activity that got my brain thinking in a different way, and it was just another opportunity that I took. Yeah.
[33:15] Michelle: And I think it just makes us better nurses, and it challenges us to learn something new, and it adds to professionalism in nursing. I'm a big fan. My audience knows I talk about professional organizations and board certifications a lot. So you guys partnered with ConnectRN and talk about that partnership, and why did you choose to do that?
[33:43] Tamara: Yeah, so in the early days of The Nursing Beat, we were trying to find organizations that would make great partners where we sort of aligned on the same mission, vision, and values for the nursing profession. And of the many meetings I had, I would say the ConnectRN meeting was by far one of the easiest I had in the early days because it was literally that moment you met an organization and, you know, they aligned keenly with what you saw as a path forward not only for your business but for the profession at large. They've done a lot over the years in supporting their nurses through their platform and also just supporting the community at large, whether they were ConnectRN nurses or not. Yeah, it was like, instantaneous. We formed a strategic partnership with them. And I will say there's, like, the short-term play in businesses where you go for the money or the cash, and then there's the long-term play where you say no to things because you know that you need to find people on the same value system. And that's really what we decided to do and why we partnered with them, ultimately.
[35:24] Michelle: Well, they're a great platform. Soon after I retired, I was in that funk where I was like, maybe I need to go back to work. And I downloaded their app and started looking for jobs.
[35:40] Tamara: Amazing. Yeah.
[35:42] Michelle: And then every job that I saw, I was like, no, I'll just wait like, another month and see how it goes. Then a couple of months later, I'm back on the app looking. I resisted. And so a year and a half later, I still haven't gone back to work, so I'm just going to hold out for that permanent retirement.
[36:01] Tamara: All right. I mean, that's the great thing about platforms like Connect RN. They give you flexibility and that decision, which is obviously so new to our profession, and provides a great sort of opportunity for nurses.
[36:20] Michelle: Yeah. Well, that sounds like a great partnership, and it's wonderful when you find your person like that.
[36:27] Tamara: Definitely.
[36:28] Michelle: So you guys produce a newsletter that's five days a week, which just blows my mind. I'm like, do they do anything else? Is it difficult? How do you do it? What's your process? Does everything have to be in by 0600 on this day and then you publish on this day? How does that work?
[36:54] Tamara: Oh, yeah. Oh, man.
[36:56] Hannah: Great question.
[36:57] Tamara: Okay. I'll start this off by saying I am a vision person. I see things. I'm passionate, I love connecting, and I am not detail-oriented. And thank the powers that be that I have Hannah and Kelly, who have made endless spreadsheets, excel documents, and hyperlinks. I mean, if you saw the operation, you would think we were like the Times Magazine of media companies. I am so impressed by what they've put together and the infrastructure that we have. It took a year, no doubt, to build it. Like, literally a year. Like meeting upon meeting upon meeting. They both pay attention to the fine details of things, and it pays off in dividends. This is why Hannah and I make the best teammates. Do not ask me to do this. It will be a disaster. Michelle, your newsletter will be out at 10:00 p.m. We'll have a night shift edition. That whole thing. That's Hannah and Kelly for sure.
[38:19] Hannah: Tamara, you're so sweet. It's true, we make a phenomenal team, honestly. It's been a lot of trial and error, but essentially, we have two writers who do the handoff section of our newsletter. They submit it about 48 hours in advance, and then all of our contributors, bulk submit to Kelly, like, month over month. Essentially Kelly edits. She has made this fabulous Google Doc that's just head to toe our entire bones of our newsletter. And then we work with a team of interns through the company Apprentice. If you ever need some great work, use Apprentice, highly recommend it. And they set up the newsletter. I've made a template. We use ActiveCampaign to send our newsletter. And the interns go in, and they plug and play from the Google Doc into ActiveCampaign. Kelly and I make final edits, and then it gets sent. So it's a pretty streamlined process. Now we've found our flow, our cadence. It really works. And, yeah, I honestly am very proud of the team and the workflow that we have set up. And this is totally where I nerd out because I could talk about workflows and streamlining things all day. It's like, great. Yeah.
[39:55] Tamara: We go back week over week with the fine details of things on multiple meetings, constantly.
[40:01] Hannah: What about this?
[40:02] Tamara: What about this? This doesn't look good. Our subscribers provide the best feedback for our newsletter. Like, just this week, we got back, we're on a meeting, like, hey, this subscriber sent this. She has a really good point, like, all right, let's change it.
[40:15] Hannah: Let's set that up.
[40:16] Tamara: To make one change is, like, six different people, but it's like, we make sure it happens. And we listen to our subscribers and what they want. They have played actually such a massive role in building the new newsletter and in sort of continuously creating better versions of the next. And yeah, thank you to all of our 21,000 plus subscribers who do take the time to fill out our surveys and send us emails of like, did you think about this? Or even if it's like, things to improve. Like, I really didn't like this article. We listen and we change. If someone has a point to make, positive or negative, we are kings and queens of feedback. We are open to feedback, and we are all humble enough to know that we do things wrong, all of us. And that's like, okay, it's not about perfection at all. It's about continuously improving our process.
[41:16] Hannah: Yeah.
[41:17] Michelle: Well, I love that you have your subscribers in mind. I mean, they're your audience and that's what you're doing it for. Can you guys remember one blog post or a social media post that you just got a ton of feedback on? Whether that was positive or negative feedback?
[41:37] Tamara: That's a good question.
[41:39] Hannah: That's a great question.
[41:40] Tamara: I think that there's always a fine line in addressing hot topics, right? So unions, abortion, vaccinations, like any topic that draws some sort of emotional pull for somebody or it's something that somebody doesn't believe in, we definitely do get that feedback. I always take the stance that if we are reporting news and facts and data, and if that fact or data is swaying a certain direction, that is the direction we go. We stand by data. Yeah, it's tough. The media business is tough. It's tough for healthcare professionals in media as well. I feel like many years from now, I will write something on all of my recommendations because you're in the public eye, whether it's your face, your content, what you're saying, and you're never going to always say it right or write it right. That's like, impossible. But if you're thoughtful about it and I think if you listen and you address things right, I think, again, it goes to continuously improving. We're not perfect, but we have to report facts and the news and statistics, and that's what we do.
[43:18] Hannah: I was just going to add to that too. Again, why nurses make really good entrepreneurs is we've been taught to do the best thing for the patient. And we've translated that into what's best for our audience. We do evidence-based practice still in our newsletter. What does the data say? What do our numbers show? And so that's translated really well. And it's very easy for us to say, like, this is the right thing for our audience or for our team or for whomever. And it makes the decision-making process very easy because if it's the right thing for our audience or our newsletter, we'll do it.
[43:55] Michelle: I love that you talked about the data and getting the facts right. And the evidence-based reporting, if you will. So what are some of the sources that you go to to get this data?
[44:09] Tamara: Oh, my God, that's a loaded question.
[44:13] Michelle: I know.
[44:16] Tamara: Our writer pool that writes the newsletter. They all have their journalists in healthcare and or nurses. Hannah and I cannot, there's no way we're going to aggregate all the data. So we have, like, a diverse pool set of writers who aggregate data from Beckers. They'll pull articles from the I mean, it's like, everywhere and anywhere that is a trusted source.
[44:48] Michelle: Well, some of the articles have been about not-so-nice nurses where maybe they were stealing medications or they committed some crime. Do you fear that that's like casting a shadow on the nursing profession? Do you have any worries about that?
[45:09] Tamara: No. I feel very strongly that we should be nonbiased. I think we are not angels. We are not heroes. There are people making mistakes in every profession, including nurses, and we should bring light to the nurses who are making mistakes because that can help shape the way we teach our future nurses. If we do not talk about the nurses that may have done something wrong or made a mistake, we're basically removing a part of nursing news, and to me, that is just not the right thing to do. Even if we're casting a negative light, it shows we're nonbiased. And to the public, I think that is the best way to be.
[46:08] Michelle: Wow, I really love that. That's really powerful. And we all know in the nursing community, we know that there are bad players. Right. And as you said, whenever there are humans involved in anything, there's going to be the ones that don't play well in the sandbox that make these mistakes. And that's kind of like the elephant in the room that we don't want to talk about. But like you said, it's sort of like a teaching tool to nurses and future nurses of like, don't do this. This isn't cool. And like you said, we're not perfect. We're people. This is the same in law enforcement. We've seen a lot of that recently. And I think that I will say from a personal standpoint, when I first read some of those articles, I was like, oh, man, this sucks, but we know it happens. And I like that you kind of are shining a light on it to take it out of the shadows and to remove those shadows from the profession. So good on you guys.
[47:32] Tamara: Thank you.
[47:35] Michelle: So tomorrow you are scheduled to speak at the Nurse Boss Summit, and that's very soon. Is that like, next week?
[47:42] Tamara: You got it.
[47:43] Hannah: Yeah.
[47:43] Tamara: Headed out on Wednesday, to North Carolina.
[47:47] Michelle: So tell me what that is and kind of why you're doing it.
[47:53] Tamara: Yeah. Nurse Boss Summit is founded by a nurse. Her name is Tammy Lewis. Should look her up. She is an amazing nurse that has a very powerful story and has single-handedly put together an entire summit herself. And she is pulling together such a diverse set of speakers content creators, advocates, and nurses in the media. I mean, the lineup is just impressive. I'm speaking, but I'm going because I want to see some of the speakers there. They're just an impressive group of men and women. And I am going to be speaking on my transition from bedside to entrepreneurship and provide tips for nurses that are interested and don't know where to begin because obviously, that's definitely, like, a hot topic now amongst many nurses. But I think there's a lot of different types of nursing conferences right there's, like the Magnet conference, which is huge and professional, and you have all of the nursing orgs and universities there. I think that there are, from a business perspective, conferences that, honestly, the nursing beat needs to be a part of. And then there are conferences that we need to go support because there are nurses doing really cool things in the community and they deserve to have that sort of light shed. And I think that because this is not confirmation, this is just sort of my I suspect that because this summit is founded by a nurse, too, our community is really coming in to support this entrepreneur who has done things like putting on a conference is huge. We put on an event, and Hannah and, you know, exhausted. It takes, like, three times the amount of time you think it's going to take. Right? So, yeah, Tammy's a force to be reckoned with, and Nurse Boss Summit is going to be amazing, and I'm super excited that we even have the chance to be there and or speak. So, yeah, very much looking forward to it.
[50:20] Hannah: If anybody's going to be there, come find us.
[50:22] Michelle: Yeah. Wow. Is this the first one?
[50:26] Tamara: No, I believe this is the second one.
[50:29] Michelle: Okay. And is this going to be an annual thing?
[50:33] Tamara: I believe so. I think that is the hope. And I did not attend the first one, but this one I'm very much looking forward to. They have a gala, and there are nurse-founded organizations going, and yeah, really, really cool speakers. I'm looking forward to seeing Nurse Alice. She's speaking. I've been following her a lot. She's a big person in nursing media. Great summit. Definitely looking forward to it. You guys should check it out.
[51:09] Michelle: And Hannah, you're going to be there?
[51:11] Hannah: I will be there, yes. I'm excited to meet everyone. And Tamara is a phenomenal public speaker, so always excited and impressed when she's talking. And, yeah, I'm excited to meet everybody.
[51:24] Michelle: Do you think you can secretly film her on your phone and then post it?
[51:30] Hannah: I will do my best. I'm not a videographer. But you know what? Let me see what I can do.
[51:36] Michelle: I think that would be cool. Yeah, that's fun. You should be proud of that.
[51:42] Tamara: Thank you.
[51:44] Michelle: Well, let's see. Take us through a typical day in the life of The Nursing Beat team. Like, what does your typical day look like?
[51:54] Tamara: Oh, my gosh. The life of a startup is just there's no typical day. It's like the ER, we're back in the ER, there's a fire, and we got a triage we have to sort. No, we have status meetings, right, weekly that are whatever, marketing, sales. We meet with different members of our team. We always have those sorts of standing meetings and then everything else is really Hannah. We used to live together, right? So the first year of this business, we were in the same house and we were The Nursing Beat headquarters, so it was like all day, every day. I think early on in a business and we had to raise capital, so it was all-encompassing. Like, early on in a business, you commit your life for sure. Hannah and I committed our personal lives for a certain amount of time to get this going and now we get to breathe and enjoy it just a little bit with a bigger team. But it's like every day is different and every day there's a new problem, a better solution, a new teammate to train. I mean, what do you think, Hannah? Is every day a new day?
[53:19] Hannah: Every day is new and we have a lot of meetings. I personally need a lot of quiet time to just figure out workflows and stuff. And I'm like, Tamara, don't talk to me, I got to figure out what to do here. But also at the same time, because we used to live together a majority of the time. It's Tamara and me on Zoom for hours, just chatting about, A because we genuinely enjoy spending time together, and B, just chatting about the business and what's next, and putting together our to-do list for the week and figuring out the overall vision. But I do enjoy the same with the ER. It's been twelve-plus years of not knowing what my day is going to bring and what fire I'm going to have to put out or what great thing is going to happen. And it's triaging priorities and continuing on.
[54:20] Tamara: And the news is 24/7, right? There's no shut-off. Like, if something's coming out or something big is happening, like you're at dinner, cool, we're calling each other, do you know what I mean? It's not even like a nine-to-five, it's just sort of all the time, really. It sounds kind of scary, but, yeah, there is no total shut-off. I would say, like, we try for sure, we try and take our weekends, but it's media, it's 24/7.
[54:59] Michelle: It sounds exciting and exhilarating and exhausting, like, all at the same time.
[55:06] Hannah: Very well said.
[55:07] Tamara: Yes. What people don't talk about, we talk about entrepreneurship and we talk about transitioning professionally and finding new jobs. You really need to evaluate where you're at in your personal life. Because, to speak frankly, if I had I don't know, I don't have a family, right? So I have time to commit. If I had multiple kids or other personal commitments, I was a caregiver. I don't know if something else going on in my life. There is no way we would have been able to do what we did last year. And it is really important for a new entrepreneur to be like, I need to create the life that I want to, not just professionally, but personally. And this is what I can give now. And set that boundary for yourself. Even for Hannah and I, we can't sustain working 24 hours, basically always on forever. That's illogical to think. So you really need to strategize, where am I at in my life? What time do I have to give? How much do I have a year? Do I have two? You really need to plan out where you want to be one, two, five years from now and how you can do that knowing your personal commitments.
[56:34] Michelle: Yeah. It's work-life balance, right?
[56:38] Tamara: Yeah.
[56:39] Michelle: And it's sort of different than working in a hospital if your work-life balance is you always picking up extra shifts and always thinking about work when you're not there, and so on and so forth. It's like you're going to hit that wall at some point. And it sounds like what you guys are doing right now by working really hard and working 24/7, you know that at some point in the near future, you're not going to have to do that because you're laying down the foundation right now. You've got the team, you've got the know-how, and at some point very soon, you're going to be able to kind of back off a little bit.
[57:26] Tamara: Well said. Yeah.
[57:28] Michelle: You guys really know yourselves really well.
[57:31] Hannah: And it's a transition coming from the hospital and twelve-hour shifts and then leaving everything at the bedside and going home and not having to think about it. It was definitely a transition for me of, oh, I have a meeting I have to go to. Like oh, okay. But again, when it's the right decision, it makes it easy. It was easy for us to easy, yet hard to leave the bedside and make that journey and make that leap, but it's totally worth it to us. And honestly, it's been our drive because we know that this is right and we know we want to give back to our communities and it made it all pretty.
[58:13] Tamara: It's been and having an open line of communication and a good ear is really knowing what's good for Hannah, may not be good for me, may not be good for Kelly, may not be good for somebody else. And we constantly are like, where are you at? How are you feeling? What are we like? Is this good for us personally, professionally? At the end of the day, we're human. And sometimes with managers in the hospital or directors. All they want is for you to commit the 20 years. That's the goal. That's the end goal. Sometimes it felt like maybe professional advancement or leaving was not an option. Like, you were almost like, I don't know, you're bad for leaving the bedside. And I don't ever want to be that leader. I want to support the people that work with us no matter if they leave, if that is in their best interest of them, that is what the best decision is. And I'll be there for them from afar. And I think it comes from wanting that myself, from leaders. And it's really important for me. It's beyond the business because all these contributors, we have such valued relationships with them. This will far exceed the nursing beat. It means more to me to have sustainable relationships, because businesses come and go, but those relationships are, like, the most valuable thing you will take away.
[01:00:02] Michelle: That's a really good point. And I like how you're constantly evaluating the plan and each other and checking in. I think it sounds like a constant, like a PDSA cycle. Right? It's like, okay, what's the problem? And let's do a test and then let's evaluate it, and then let's see what our next plan is. And I love it. I think that's great. What do you guys think is the future for The Nursing Beat?
[01:00:35] Hannah: Great question.
[01:00:38] Tamara: Big question.
[01:00:39] Hannah: Big question.
[01:00:41] Michelle: Or the near future? We could say that maybe.
[01:00:46] Tamara: I want nurses to wake up and or go to bed with our tools, our resources, our information. I want to be the go-to for nurses when they need help, whether it be content, whether it be a laugh, whether it be a product that they need to make themselves a better nurse or human. I think we keenly understand that mind, body, and soul are so important for the profession and sustainability and that there are so many different outlets to sort of feed that, and we want to be that outlet.
[01:01:38] Michelle: Well, I think you're well on your way to accomplishing that goal.
[01:01:42] Tamara: Thank you. Yeah, I like to think so.
[01:01:47] Hannah: I agree with Tamara on all of the long-term visions, and my vision for this year in particular. Last year was such a mad dash to get everything going, and this year we're in such a great place, especially with the newly designed newsletter. I want to listen to our community and our subscribers, what do you want to see? What resources do you want to read about? Who can we source? Who's the next person that we can bring on to give something to our readers?
[01:02:17] Tamara: So true.
[01:02:18] Hannah: Yeah. Kind of want to slow down and just listen to everybody and listen to the good and the bad feedback and go from there and figure out the best products that we can give to our subscribers and our community.
[01:02:32] Michelle: Well, that feedback is so essential to kind of like why we're doing this, like, why we get up in the morning, right? If all we hear is crickets chirping, it's kind of hard to evaluate. We think we're doing it right or we think we have a good product, but the feedback is so important. Yeah, more feedback. I think that's a worthy goal as well. What advice do you both have for nurses that are contemplating becoming entrepreneurs?
[01:03:10] Hannah: Get on LinkedIn.
[01:03:15] Michelle: Hit up Nurse Fern's course on LinkedIn, right?
[01:03:18] Hannah: Take Nurse Fernn's course on LinkedIn.
[01:03:20] Michelle: Yes, I think I might be doing that. I need it, definitely.
[01:03:26] Tamara: Honestly, it's a variation of what Hannah says. You're not alone. There is, like, a huge community of nurses. Like, I started like, I can't even believe I was doing this, but I was, like, DMing random people on Instagram that I thought were influential or that could sort of help navigate the nursing beat and or my career. And they responded. And I randomly messaged people. You don't even know how many random people. One of those people was Nurse Fern. I literally DM'd her on Instagram and I was like, you don't know me, but I love what you're doing, and I think it's so important for the nursing community, will you please meet? She was like she was like, Yep, sure. No, like so I think it's just, like, reaching out. If you don't know where to begin, just start by asking questions and reaching out to different people that you may admire or may help answer the questions that you do have. Mentorship is such a big part of my life and it's really important, I think, when making these decisions, to add to that, too.
[01:04:37] Hannah: Asking for informationalminterviews and putting yourself out there is I think we kind of live in a world that's behind social media and behind this digital screen. And when you put a face to a name and say, like, hey, this is my story, I'm kind of thinking about making this transition, I see you've done it. Can you help me? Can we just chat for, like, 20 minutes? I would love to pick your brain. You don't know where that conversation or where that DM is going to lead you. And I've had so many people reach out to me on LinkedIn or email or Instagram or whatever, and I'm happy to chat with you about entrepreneurship or my journey or to hear what you want to do and be a sounding board. There's a lot to be said about putting yourself out there, and I have a lot of respect for that, for both being on both sides of that. So put yourself out there and make the conversation happen.
[01:05:35] Tamara: Yeah.
[01:05:35] Michelle: It's about being courageous and it's difficult, and I think it's difficult sometimes. This is back to the nurse's identity of asking for help, and being courageous in putting yourself out there, and it's definitely something learned. And I think I echo your sentiments, Tamara, on the Instagram community. It's been so wonderful for me as a nurse and a podcaster. I've found some of my most wonderful guests through Instagram, and the community is great. They're very supportive. I've put out my I need a nurse midwife for an interview, and within, like, two minutes, I have, like, five leads.
[01:06:28] Hannah: I love that.
[01:06:29] Michelle: Yeah, it's awesome. So courage to put yourself out there and community, I think those are really important.
[01:06:40] Hannah: Yeah.
[01:06:41] Michelle: And I have really enjoyed this interview today with both of you. I want to thank you both for coming on. You've provided so much just information and inspiration for our audience today. I'm definitely going to put all of your contact information in the show notes so that they can get a hold of you on LinkedIn and your Instagram and Facebook and all that.
[01:07:06] Hannah: Thank you.
[01:07:07] Tamara: Yeah, thank you for having us. This has been so special. We love doing this kind of stuff, and honestly, it's nice to reflect.
[01:07:16] Hannah: Yeah, thank you for having us. This is our first podcast, actually. Oh, it is for TNB. So thank you for being such a great first podcast host.
[01:07:30] Michelle: Oh, thank you so much. It's going to be the first of many for you. I know that. I'm happy for you guys. Yeah. Well, at the end of the session, we do what's called the five-minute snippet, and it's just five minutes of fun. It's a chance for our audience to get to see kind of your off-duty side. And today I'm going to switch it up a little bit because it's kind of hard to do the five-minute snippet with two guests. So we're going to play a version of The Newlywed Game. And I know you guys are not newlywed, but I would say kind of like your work wives.
[01:08:14] Hannah: We're basically married.
[01:08:17] Michelle: Okay. So we're going to see how much you guys know about each other.
[01:08:23] Hannah: Oh, boy. Okay.
[01:08:26] Michelle: It's going to be fun. I'll put on my timer, and we'll just go. All right, so the first question is for Tamara: Hannah has the day off and an empty house. How does she spend the day?
[01:08:45] Tamara: She's definitely doing some form of activity, whether it's biking or running. Probably running. There are probably some plants that are getting watered.
[01:08:57] Michelle: I love it, plant mama.
[01:08:59] Tamara: And then also, she loves people, so she's probably seeing a friend or a family member if she's in town.
[01:09:09] Michelle: That sounds like a wonderful day.
[01:09:12] Hannah: It is all quite accurate.
[01:09:15] Michelle: All right, Hannah, this one's for you. What is Tamara's favorite coffee?
[01:09:23] Hannah: OOH. Well, Tamara is now an espresso machine aficionado. If you need an espresso, you go to Tamara. She makes the best espressos. This was her pandemic activity. I would say, like, later half of the pandemic when she got an espresso machine, and she got even the stencils to make, like, the cinnamon.
[01:09:51] Michelle: Wow.
[01:09:52] Hannah: So I would say lattes are her, oat milk lattes are no, she does 2% as well. I take back the oat milk.
[01:10:04] Michelle: Okay. I want to see you post one of your creations tomorrow.
[01:10:09] Tamara: Okay. I'll have to. She's right. I am completely obsessed and as a hobby, accurate.
[01:10:18] Michelle: Tamara, this one's for you. Hannah's guilty pleasure.
[01:10:23] Tamara: Oh, gosh. Guilty pleasure. Well, there are some shows that I feel like are her guilty pleasure that you'll sit in bed and watch. I can't think of one particular, but we like the K's, and we do all that, so I feel like I'll say that's a guilty pleasure is like shows like that.
[01:10:48] Michelle: I was going to say, is it the Bachelor or one of those?
[01:10:52] Hannah: Definitely the K's. Tamara's turned me on to the K's.
[01:10:55] Tamara: Yeah.
[01:10:57] Michelle: Okay, Hannah, who spends more time on the computer?
[01:11:02] Hannah: OOH? I think I spend more time on the computer, Tamara's, because I am a desktop person. Tamara spends more time on her phone, and I text from my computer. I go on Instagram on my computer. I really don't do much on my phone.
[01:11:21] Michelle: Okay, Tamara, Hannah asks you to grab her a treat from the store on your way to work. What treat do you pick up?
[01:11:32] Tamara: We've lived together. She never asked for a treat. But if she's going to go get a treat, it's going to be like parmesan Cheez-Its from the liquor store.
[01:11:44] Hannah: And she's so accurate.
[01:11:55] Michelle: Okay, Hannah, what's Tamara's worst habit?
[01:11:59] Tamara: Oh, no...
[01:12:01] Michelle: I know, right? Tamara's like, be nice, please.
[01:12:06] Hannah: No, Tamara, she's a great roommate. She doesn't replace the toilet paper. Maybe that's the worst.
[01:12:17] Michelle: It that's my daughter. I live with my daughter right now, and it's hilarious. Okay, Tamara, when it comes to your desks, between the two of you, who will Hannah say is the most organized?
[01:12:31] Tamara: Hannah, for sure. Yeah. No question.
[01:12:35] Michelle: Is that true, Hannah?
[01:12:37] Hannah: Yes.
[01:12:38] Michelle: Okay. All right. Hannah, if Tamara had five extra hours to spend in her day, what would she do?
[01:12:46] Hannah: Oh, what a great question. She would get everything on her to-do list done. She is a big errand person and enjoys bopping around the city and running all of her errands. She's the fastest errand person I've ever seen, and she would get all of her to-do lists done, grab a coffee in the middle of it, and then probably go out to dinner with some friends. Yep.
[01:13:14] Michelle: Well, are you out for hire, Tamara? Because I need someone to run my errands.
[01:13:18] Tamara: Errands for be done in, like, an hour. An hour's time.
[01:13:28] Michelle: Okay, Tamara, what's something that always makes Hannah laugh?
[01:13:34] Tamara: Oh, gosh. I mean, we're always I think we both find we're a bit of our humor a little strange, I would say. I think nurses' humor is a little strange. Right?
[01:13:53] Hannah: Yes.
[01:13:54] Tamara: And in the ER, it's really bad. I would say so. I think she and I both laugh together in ridiculous situations that are happening in the business. We're like, is this really happening right now, but instead of crying, we're laughing, and Hannah will definitely giggle. I can't believe it. Yeah.
[01:14:18] Hannah: I will say Tamara has some phenomenal analogies. I don't know where they come from in her brain, but the analogies she pulls out about fire happening at work or something, always make me laugh because they're the best, and they're so incredibly unique to her. It's probably one of my favorite personality traits about her.
[01:14:40] Michelle: Okay, I can see some memes now. All right, Hannah, you get the last question. Who spends the most money on personal items?
[01:14:51] Hannah: Personal items? It's a great question. Honestly, probably both of us. I think we both have our niches. Tamara's big into fashion. I'm probably big into, I don't know, like, running and biking and now traveling items, because I'm a nomad. I would say it's probably fairly even. Tamara, is that fair?
[01:15:16] Tamara: The first thing I thought was me because I have, my taste is now, I'm like Neiman Marcus taste, but a Walmart budget type of thing, so how am I going to make it work? But you're right. It's just totally different stuff. I would say the same budget, but different. Yeah, we both like our things. We like our things.
[01:15:39] Michelle: Michelle, I saw you guys. You're kind of fancy. I was on your Instagram, and I saw your San Francisco, one of the get-togethers you did. And you guys were on the top of this building, and it looked like it was a little bit cold, and Tamara was in this full-length white, looks like a wool coat, and I was like, oh my God, they're fancy.
[01:16:04] Hannah: I will say one of the best things Tamara has ever said is that nurses get a lot of hand-me-downs. Whether it be, the old piece of equipment from upstairs. Oh, my gosh, look, it's totally outdated. And so one thing we are doing at The Nursing Beat is trying to elevate the whole nursing profession, whether it started with the redesign of our newsletter, it's fresh, it's exciting, it's easy to read. It's for nurses specifically and only for nurses. And then all of our events. We want the rooftops. We want beautiful skylines. We want to be a little bit more bougie, because I don't think the nursing profession has historically gotten that, and we want to give it to our community. Yeah.
[01:16:51] Michelle: I love that about you ladies, and I love everything that you're doing. I love how you complement each other. I love your team. I love the content that you're putting out there. It's by nurses, for nurses, and I've said this many times with my guests. The utmost respect I have is for nurses who support other nurses. So you're definitely doing that. And it's been a blast for me to talk with both of you today. So I just want to thank you again for coming on.
[01:17:26] Hannah: Thank you for having me.
[01:17:29] Michelle: Well, you guys have a wonderful day. I know you're all over the country, and we're kind of all split up, and just wherever you are, have a wonderful day, and thank you again.
Tamara: Thank you.
[01:17:40] Hannah: Thank you and an honor.